The Forum

[quote="STRELKA"]So we did some more testing on the PTR with the final iteration of the build as of later afternoon. [url=https://youtu.be/nU0V2mUVdtQ] PTR Test - Standardised (epic) gear [/url] [url=https://youtu.be/8Q6PddmRMyk] PTR Test - Full gear [/url] [url=https://youtu.be/1OMByaOwr7M] PTR Test- 3v1 [/url] [b]TL;DR[/b] - Defence is far too low. Attack is far too high. The balance should change between them. Blanace BETWEEN classes is not bad. We should discuss DEX too. - [b]First video:[/b] We all wore epic invul sets and epic weapons. We did NOT use auras or any upgraded gear. These are typical (and standardised) values for what a player who caps without upgrades will have, and we can see the results: Most classes 5-6-7 hit each other (with no auras). The differences between the classes was not big, only 1 or 2 more hits variance between an archer tanking a 2h axer and a knux. In 1v1 this is fine...but when you csonider dex and the fact that sooma is rarely 1v1 but 2v1 or 3v2 with auras involved - it looks like it might be a bit grim. -- [b]Second video:[/b] We decided to see how the current attack/defence values are for the actual gears player have, not just a standardised baseline. Immediately we noticed an issue. When we put on our properly upgaded gear (all players in vid have great stuff) we immediately shot up in attack but defence hardly changed. Weapons also sped up by 2-300 speed. As we can see - without auras - players dropped so much faster than before due to a large increase in attack but a negligible increase in defence. We all felt that the damage was far too high. - [b]Third video[/b]:: We tested 3 well geared characters of the 3 different classes (Bow - Sword - Axe) against the best tank geared axer ingame. The damage was extreme, only just pot-able. It made us think that when its 3v1 and the character being his isnt an axer in 2nd with an insane tank set...its an instant death, similarly GVWs often have 20-30 people there with at least half attacking the stone. Then there is zomie in these circumstances (cast and pants). [b]My thoughts:[/b] I think a blanket boost to con is needed. Maybe 30-40 for axers down to 20-25 for bows, varying by class. Maybe more than this. I would also like to see con upgrades available ingame. What do other players/testers/GMs think?[/quote]

[quote="PUTIN"]Axer seems to be in a good place at last, a 30-40 con boost seems way to much. Think people are just comparing to the un-killable broken axer defence of the last 2+ years. They have stone aura and accuracy sets greatly improve they're dps now with a smaller Dex gap? don't feel any con+ is required for axers Would also like to see 3 geared chars against an archer (1-2 axers) my guess is axers are both the tankiest while dealing similar damage against a Dex class [/quote]

[quote="YAREYAREDAZE"]What part of this video makes you think "axer is in a good place at last". The part where someone in legendary upgraded clean tabbed armor and 2nd can barely outpot 3 people? Be constructive and not biased pleased , especially when you said only axers dont need more con. The point was that everyone needs more con most likely Im the first to admit axer needs to take more dmg than they do on live. But this isnt a good level at the moment[/quote]

[quote="PUTIN"]I'm guessing his gear is +5 everything, same as everyone else who has been playing as long. He can outpot 3 devil's, so he'd die to 4? Humans will also die to a 4vs1 and they're GVW seems fine with even numbers, alot better than Dsoma, The damage they receive along with the auras they have and the damage they deal seems balanced to me. Not at all biased I also have a capped axer and plenty of gear to use on him. Would just be nice to move away from MythOfAxers and make other classes viable once more[/quote]

[quote="YAREYAREDAZE"]The classes seem largely balanced against each other at the moment ye (they all murder each other, and are murdered themselves) Thats why a blanket con boost was what alot of us were discussing. Just to tone down the damage across the board. For all classes, while keeping the general ratio of hits to kill someone the same Currently in small scale fights and gvw. People will be dropping left and right with no coordination needed. I dont think it will be the most rewardi ng or interesting game play like that. Just my opinion atleast[/quote]

[quote="PUTIN"]Hmm last time I tested a few hours ago finito had just added +25 con across the board? (think after these videos were made) and the balance seemed fine for most classes (maybe axers are too tanky) Axers are getting dangerously close to taking min dmg again from bow/knux and nobody wants that. (my hit +5th on swordy dealt about 20-30%damage to Kekket- not great) [/quote]

[quote="YAREYAREDAZE"]Think he actually removed that just before we logged on to test (as that might explain you're comments), max con for me as axer was 220. when we did these tests (about an hour ago) No offense but have you watched the videos? How can you possibly say "axer is getting dangerously close to taking min dmg from bow/knux" The video clearly shows that's no where near whats happening........... if you open the first video, and check the first clip, you would see an axer in exact equal gear getting hit for about 15-20% dmg a hit? how exactly is that "dangerously close to min" [/quote]

[quote="STRELKA"][quote="PUTIN"]Axer seems to be in a good place at last, a 30-40 con boost seems way to much. Think people are just comparing to the un-killable broken axer defence of the last 2+ years. They have stone aura and accuracy sets greatly improve they're dps now with a smaller Dex gap? don't feel any con+ is required for axers Would also like to see 3 geared chars against an archer (1-2 axers) my guess is axers are both the tankiest while dealing similar damage against a Dex class [/quote] Ok but there are two points here: 1. Look at the damage the tankiest character in the game takes (full CT gear on max invul) and then think how common it is for 2 melee and an archer to hit someone in world pvp and GVW. It happens all the time, but they have so much less con and def than Kekket that they will be vapourised. Even without thinking of axers....imagine how fast anyone will die if they have 3 people hitting them. It's instant. 2. I like the idea that axers should actually die, unlike present. But they also have to be able to tank GV and be much tankier than other classes (due to the lack of an offensive damage-on-command aura; lack of dex). I'm not saying we are miles off, but this is too weak. In accuracy gear and 4th (not CT) they drop as easily as swords and spears but they dont even get a hit off, and no aura, because they still take like 8 in 10 hits. Somewhere between live and this is what we need - for all classes. [quote="PUTIN"]Hmm last time I tested a few hours ago finito had just added +25 con across the board? (think after these videos were made) and the balance seemed fine for most classes (maybe axers are too tanky) Axers are getting dangerously close to taking min dmg again from bow/knux and nobody wants that. (my hit +5th on swordy dealt about 20-30%damage to Kekket- not great) [/quote] AFAIK he took this off, and we are testing without it (can see con values of bow and sword in the video). maybe the 25 is enough, but thats not present in this testing, Perhaps we need to simulate a real world 3v3 pk fight or something. Either in arena or at GV with a truckload of rezzies - just record and see how easily everyone dies, and if that is acceptable. [/quote]

[quote="JAHEIRA"]Wasnt exactly happy with spear either, in a duel lose to bow, knuckle and sword because i dont hit them enought / dont dmg enough, then lose to axe cos of stone[/quote]

[quote="PUTIN"]Just watched all 3, damage is different from when I tested with the +25 con across the board, the first video is against non PD which has always been the problem, and the last video it takes a geared swordy 17hits to kill an axer (got to take the Dex change into account aswell now not just the damage dealt on hits Axer hit rate is alot higher now with smaller Dex gap? (accuracy gear) Also why is it only seen that an axer can tank in GVW and not an archer or knuxer who should have enough Dex to tank abit also? Guessing you were using attack gear against an axer as it's best? Why not put the defence set on a swordy and what's best for an axer (accuracy set) and see if it takes 17 swings for am axer to kill a swordy [/quote]

[quote="STRELKA"][quote="PUTIN"] Also why is it only seen that an axer can tank in GVW and not an archer or knuxer who should have enough Dex to tank abit also? [/quote] Because the damage from auras than an archer in dex gear takes is absurd? Because 5th strips dodge? Axers can tank because of PD and shield, because of 70-100 more base defence. As I keep saying, my argument here is not about axers being too fragile. It's about everyone. The point of using an axer in full tank mode to test with is to show that even the absolute strongest and hardest to kill character ingame is getting absolutely melted by only 3 people. When we have 20+ devils at GVW how will it go? When a 6v6 pk fight breaks out, how do you think the knux/spears/swords are going to fair? I am saying - before any discussions about dex or class balance - increase the con of everyone, not just axers. I do think we need to discuss some dex issues and some class balance issues...but thats much less important than knowing that everyone is taking insane damage. [/quote]

[quote="DEIMOS"]I still think best test would be something good along the lines of arranged gvw on test server and actual run what could potentially be the final values? 1vs1 doesn’t prove much of anything outside of pure damage values I duelled whoever was logged on stones and strelka many times today with full gear and without, every duel I lost having actually hit them a maximum of two times[/quote]

[quote="PUTIN"]What do you think happens in a 6vs6 fight at present or even on hsoma if all target the same person? They die, that's soma[/quote]

[quote="STRELKA"][quote="DEIMOS"]I still think best test would be something good along the lines of arranged gvw on test server and actual run what could potentially be the final values? 1vs1 doesn’t prove much of anything outside of pure damage values I duelled whoever was logged on stones and strelka many times today with full gear and without, every duel I lost having actually hit them a maximum of two times[/quote] This is the problem with axers specifically yeah. Even with more dex, because the nerf to their def is so severe...and they die in 7-10 hits from an A or A+ speed wep, they still dont land half the 4 hits requried to kill someone before they die. I dont want to move away from the main discussion of how necessary an around-the-board con increase is from the present test server though. [/quote]

[quote="MANTICORE"]the dmg with normal gear its about right it was like that bk in the old days when we didnt have upgrades also we didnt had acess to dfs aswell. The way i see it its when upgraded gear kicks in things going crazy [/quote]