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CYROX |
The problem isn't the aura. Reducing it to b speed has proved it wasn't the aura that was OP.
The problem is the dex soft cap at 100. Why use any other weapon after 100dex? Axe is the fasted way to gain str. The game is extremely restrictive because of this cap. Get to 100dex however you wish Change to axe to cap str The solution is not changing axe. The solution is making other weapons more viable by increasing dex gains after 100. This would make nux bow and sword all viable pure weapon builds.
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[quote="CYROX"]The problem isn't the aura. Reducing it to b speed has proved it wasn't the aura that was OP.
The problem is the dex soft cap at 100. Why use any other weapon after 100dex? Axe is the fasted way to gain str. The game is extremely restrictive because of this cap.
Get to 100dex however you wish
Change to axe to cap str
The solution is not changing axe. The solution is making other weapons more viable by increasing dex gains after 100. This would make nux bow and sword all viable pure weapon builds. [/quote]
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#31 2014/01/21 08:17:46 |
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SHATTERSTAR |
"CYROX"The problem isn't the aura. Reducing it to b speed has proved it wasn't the aura that was OP. It would, but then you would need to increase the aura back to A/A+, as per Dsoma?
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[quote="SHATTERSTAR"][quote="CYROX"]The problem isn't the aura. Reducing it to b speed has proved it wasn't the aura that was OP.
The problem is the dex soft cap at 100. Why use any other weapon after 100dex? Axe is the fasted way to gain str. The game is extremely restrictive because of this cap.
Get to 100dex however you wish
Change to axe to cap str
The solution is not changing axe. The solution is making other weapons more viable by increasing dex gains after 100. This would make nux bow and sword all viable pure weapon builds. [/quote]
It would, but then you would need to increase the aura back to A/A+, as per Dsoma?[/quote]
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#32 2014/01/21 09:56:45 |
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BLACKHAT |
"BELKA"The main problem with hsoma axe is that is basically doesn't need upgrading. Sounds like axe needs balancing to me.
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[quote="BLACKHAT"][quote="BELKA"]The main problem with hsoma axe is that is basically doesn't need upgrading.
You get 1 good tagged Blue Wave Axe and you activate 4th and thats it, your weapon is as good as it can be. Both your leveling and pvp ability is amazing.
If you get a pammy to drop a decent a spear, a knuckle, or a bow you wouldn't even use it without upgrades. It isn't THAT much better than a LB wep and needs to be much faster to be effective in pvp. Then factor in that to get a rare/epic B speed stinger you are probably going to end up breaking 2-3 bows (at least). So you need to farma boss with a 4 day respawn and a big dropfile, get the last hit, get a drop of the wep you want, have it at a decent tag, then achieve upgrade success several times.
After all that you now have a pammy weapon ready to go, whereas axe had it the 2nd they clicked 4th on. [/quote]
Sounds like axe needs balancing to me.[/quote]
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#33 2014/01/21 10:29:09 |
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BRAINDATA |
"CYROX"The problem isn't the aura. Reducing it to b speed has proved it wasn't the aura that was OP. Good point boss, here lies the issue IMO
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[quote="BRAINDATA"][quote="CYROX"]The problem isn't the aura. Reducing it to b speed has proved it wasn't the aura that was OP.
The problem is the dex soft cap at 100. Why use any other weapon after 100dex? Axe is the fasted way to gain str. The game is extremely restrictive because of this cap.
Get to 100dex however you wish
Change to axe to cap str
The solution is not changing axe. The solution is making other weapons more viable by increasing dex gains after 100. This would make nux bow and sword all viable pure weapon builds. [/quote]
Good point boss, here lies the issue IMO[/quote]
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#34 2014/01/21 10:36:23 |
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BELKA |
"CYROX"The problem isn't the aura. Reducing it to b speed has proved it wasn't the aura that was OP. All true. The only problem becomes what can you possibly do about it now? You can't exactly change the fundamentals of the game when people are level 90 and everyone else has got 100+ skill in several weapons.
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[quote="BELKA"][quote="CYROX"]The problem isn't the aura. Reducing it to b speed has proved it wasn't the aura that was OP.
The problem is the dex soft cap at 100. Why use any other weapon after 100dex? Axe is the fasted way to gain str. The game is extremely restrictive because of this cap.
Get to 100dex however you wish
Change to axe to cap str
The solution is not changing axe. The solution is making other weapons more viable by increasing dex gains after 100. This would make nux bow and sword all viable pure weapon builds. [/quote]
All true.
The only problem becomes what can you possibly do about it now? You can't exactly change the fundamentals of the game when people are level 90 and everyone else has got 100+ skill in several weapons.[/quote]
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#35 2014/01/21 10:47:45 |
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BLACKHAT |
This may be a little controversial, but maybe part of the problem is that STR does NOT cap in a similar way to dex.
I think a big problem in Soma has always been the huge STR gaps without any real slowdown to keep people from being too ridiculously strong. This is probably meaningless now since the server has been live so long. But if STR had a softcap then the gains would be more meaningful, there would be less of a gap between top level players and mid level and most importantly, all weapons would be viable.
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[quote="BLACKHAT"]This may be a little controversial, but maybe part of the problem is that STR does NOT cap in a similar way to dex.
I think a big problem in Soma has always been the huge STR gaps without any real slowdown to keep people from being too ridiculously strong.
This is probably meaningless now since the server has been live so long. But if STR had a softcap then the gains would be more meaningful, there would be less of a gap between top level players and mid level and most importantly, all weapons would be viable.
[/quote]
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#36 2014/01/21 11:04:43 |
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_SEPHIROTH_ |
Tbh after reading belka's first post I dont think its possible to balance weapons unless you make them all the same gains.
Axe will always give you strength in less % than any other weapon an bow will always give you dex in less %. At cap anyone thats not axe/bow wont have as good stats as everyone that is. I think sword/knuckle should come with a disclaimer warning when you create your character.
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[quote="_SEPHIROTH_"]Tbh after reading belka's first post I dont think its possible to balance weapons unless you make them all the same gains.
Axe will always give you strength in less % than any other weapon an bow will always give you dex in less %. At cap anyone thats not axe/bow wont have as good stats as everyone that is.
I think sword/knuckle should come with a disclaimer warning when you create your character.[/quote]
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#37 2014/01/21 11:21:56 |
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S0RCERER |
"_SEPHIROTH_"Tbh after reading belka's first post I dont think its possible to balance weapons unless you make them all the same gains. It is possible to balance weapons, but the ratios of str/dex need to bare real meaning. You have 5 melee weapons, as such gains should look as follows: Axe = 5 str : 1 dex Spear = 4 str : 2 dex Sword = 3 str : 3 dex Knuckle = 2 str : 4 dex Bow = 1 str : 5 dex At present, it's more like... Axe = 5 str : 2 dex Spear = 4 str : 2 dex Sword = 3 str : 2 dex Knuckle = 2 str: 3 dex Bow = 2 str : 4 dex
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[quote="S0RCERER"][quote="_SEPHIROTH_"]Tbh after reading belka's first post I dont think its possible to balance weapons unless you make them all the same gains.
Axe will always give you strength in less % than any other weapon an bow will always give you dex in less %. At cap anyone thats not axe/bow wont have as good stats as everyone that is.
I think sword/knuckle should come with a disclaimer warning when you create your character.[/quote]
It is possible to balance weapons, but the ratios of str/dex need to bare real meaning.
You have 5 melee weapons, as such gains should look as follows:
Axe = 5 str : 1 dex
Spear = 4 str : 2 dex
Sword = 3 str : 3 dex
Knuckle = 2 str : 4 dex
Bow = 1 str : 5 dex
At present, it's more like...
Axe = 5 str : 2 dex
Spear = 4 str : 2 dex
Sword = 3 str : 2 dex
Knuckle = 2 str: 3 dex
Bow = 2 str : 4 dex[/quote]
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#38 2014/01/21 11:27:33 |
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CYROX |
If you don't change it now the problem will only get worse. Just remember this is meant to be a long term server with the lvl cap raising further down the line.
Do we want the cap to raise to lvl 120 and everyone just doing axe for 20 lvls? Or do we want diversity in weapons. The change may upset a minority in the short term but would please the majority and improve the server imo.
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[quote="CYROX"]If you don't change it now the problem will only get worse. Just remember this is meant to be a long term server with the lvl cap raising further down the line.
Do we want the cap to raise to lvl 120 and everyone just doing axe for 20 lvls? Or do we want diversity in weapons.
The change may upset a minority in the short term but would please the majority and improve the server imo. [/quote]
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#39 2014/01/21 11:27:35 |
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SHATTERSTAR |
Perhaps one idea would be to introduce another tier of weapons usable at level 90/95+. These weapons have adjustments to damage output based upon how you levelled.
Therefore, no matter how you levelled your character, your damage output can be adjusted at end game through top tier weapons. Would be a shame to not see a diverse selection of weapons at end game.
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[quote="SHATTERSTAR"]Perhaps one idea would be to introduce another tier of weapons usable at level 90/95+. These weapons have adjustments to damage output based upon how you levelled.
Therefore, no matter how you levelled your character, your damage output can be adjusted at end game through top tier weapons.
Would be a shame to not see a diverse selection of weapons at end game.[/quote]
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#40 2014/01/21 11:28:47 |
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BRAINDATA |
iSylver.. thoughts?! :P
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#41 2014/01/21 11:41:17 |
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_SEPHIROTH_ |
Well put it this way, Acaelus using a basic crafted power axe is getting strength faster and in half the % than he does using rare upgraded snake bite.
Considering .1 dex is 16-20% with sword and its soon going slow down by half it basically means your ruining your character if you continue with it. I'm not sure theres enough % left to get dex over 110 at those rates.
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[quote="_SEPHIROTH_"]Well put it this way, Acaelus using a basic crafted power axe is getting strength faster and in [b]half[/b] the % than he does using rare upgraded snake bite.
Considering .1 dex is 16-20% with sword and its soon going slow down by half it basically means your ruining your character if you continue with it. I'm not sure theres enough % left to get dex over 110 at those rates.[/quote]
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#42 2014/01/21 11:50:58 |
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GHOSTLORD |
"BLACKHAT"This may be a little controversial, but maybe part of the problem is that STR does NOT cap in a similar way to dex. It does though, especially on DSoma you notice that every stat (archers will notice this with STR, axers will notice this with DEX/CON) is slower between 95-110 than after. DEX is about 2x slower (requires more XP) than STR, as we see now with sword who gets 100/100 (which is theoretically the same as the suggested 3:3 from s0rc).
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[quote="GHOSTLORD"][quote="BLACKHAT"]This may be a little controversial, but maybe part of the problem is that STR does NOT cap in a similar way to dex.
I think a big problem in Soma has always been the huge STR gaps without any real slowdown to keep people from being too ridiculously strong.
This is probably meaningless now since the server has been live so long. But if STR had a softcap then the gains would be more meaningful, there would be less of a gap between top level players and mid level and most importantly, all weapons would be viable.
[/quote]
It does though, especially on DSoma you notice that every stat (archers will notice this with STR, axers will notice this with DEX/CON) is slower between 95-110 than after.
DEX is about 2x slower (requires more XP) than STR, as we see now with sword who gets 100/100 (which is theoretically the same as the suggested 3:3 from s0rc).[/quote]
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#43 2014/01/21 11:52:55 |
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S0RCERER |
"_SEPHIROTH_"Well put it this way, Acaelus using a basic crafted power axe is getting strength faster and in half the % than he does using rare upgraded snake bite. As on Dsoma, the stats of players who reach 95dex (even as an archer) begin to gain as low as 0.6dex a level. Considering they have no other weapon choice, they keep hunting with bow, despite terrible gains for the next 10 levels. After they reach 110, gains begin to pick up again. I think the problem is predominantly is one of perception, as on Private Servers with faster rates than this one, but using the Esoma database, people were taking the Dex-route and still not messing up their character in the long run. If you want Dex, unfortunately there's only two weapon choices: Knuck or Bow. I'm training my human exactly as I would a devil - Pure bow.
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[quote="S0RCERER"][quote="_SEPHIROTH_"]Well put it this way, Acaelus using a basic crafted power axe is getting strength faster and in [b]half[/b] the % than he does using rare upgraded snake bite.
Considering .1 dex is 16-20% with sword and its soon going slow down by half it basically means your ruining your character if you continue with it. I'm not sure theres enough % left to get dex over 110 at those rates.[/quote]
As on Dsoma, the stats of players who reach 95dex (even as an archer) begin to gain as low as 0.6dex a level.
Considering they have no other weapon choice, they keep hunting with bow, despite terrible gains for the next 10 levels.
After they reach 110, gains begin to pick up again.
I think the problem is predominantly is one of perception, as on Private Servers with faster rates than this one, but using the Esoma database, people were taking the Dex-route and still not messing up their character in the long run.
If you want Dex, unfortunately there's only two weapon choices: Knuck or Bow.
I'm training my human exactly as I would a devil - Pure bow.[/quote]
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#44 2014/01/21 12:14:12 |
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BELKA |
"GHOSTLORD" For Hsoma that is the problem - there is no 'after' for DEX. There isn't enough % in the game for a character to break through this 90-110 DEX barrier of disgustingly big slows. If you went pure bow from level 1-100 you may just get through it, but then you would have 70 less STR and INT than other players, and so it is hardly viable. The point is that humans need to either use a combination of a STR wep and a DEX one, or a wep that trains both - and if you use such a wep (sword/knux) then you end up being unable to break 110 DEX AND wasting huge amounts of exp gaining STR. So it boils down to the fact that if you play a character that isn't axe/bow then you are leveling very inefficiently and will end up with all-around lower stats than someone who is. That ain't such a nice situation for people that want to level sword/knux. "S0RCERER" Past 80 DEX it isn't worth it with the dodge and evasion changes. You can't hunt by 'dexing' mobs anymore. I believe the best way is to get early DEX then finish melee as pure axe - getting the last 10-15 DEX as you get the last 80-90 STR, and ending up with the STR cap and 100-ish DEX and leaving the most possible spare % to raise INT.
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[quote="BELKA"][quote="GHOSTLORD"]
It does though, especially on DSoma you notice that every stat (archers will notice this with STR, axers will notice this with DEX/CON) is slower between 95-110 than after.
[/quote]
For Hsoma that is the problem - there is no 'after' for DEX.
There isn't enough % in the game for a character to break through this 90-110 DEX barrier of disgustingly big slows. If you went pure bow from level 1-100 you may just get through it, but then you would have 70 less STR and INT than other players, and so it is hardly viable.
The point is that humans need to either use a combination of a STR wep and a DEX one, or a wep that trains both - and if you use such a wep (sword/knux) then you end up being unable to break 110 DEX [b]AND[/b] wasting huge amounts of exp gaining STR. So it boils down to the fact that if you play a character that isn't axe/bow then you are leveling very inefficiently and will end up with all-around lower stats than someone who is.
That ain't such a nice situation for people that want to level sword/knux.
[quote="S0RCERER"]
I'm training my human exactly as I would a devil - Pure bow.[/quote]
Past 80 DEX it isn't worth it with the dodge and evasion changes. You can't hunt by 'dexing' mobs anymore.
I believe the best way is to get early DEX then finish melee as pure axe - getting the last 10-15 DEX as you get the last 80-90 STR, and ending up with the STR cap and 100-ish DEX and leaving the most possible spare % to raise INT.
[/quote]
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#45 2014/01/21 13:15:04 |
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