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NITE |
For PvP it lacks in attack I think.
Also I had to start Axe because otherwise i would never reach 85+ str with knuckle because it was taking me 1 hour + and for dex it was 1 hour and 20 mins. I feel like soma forces you to go 2 weapons. Normally Axe/bow. (60%-70% of the hsoma community a are axe/bow), maybe there's a hint there that maybe something could be done to make single weapon levelers such as my self can compete w.o having to use str weapons.
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[quote="NITE"]For PvP it lacks in attack I think.
Also I had to start Axe because otherwise i would never reach 85+ str with knuckle because it was taking me 1 hour + and for dex it was 1 hour and 20 mins.
I feel like soma forces you to go 2 weapons.
Normally Axe/bow. (60%-70% of the hsoma community a are axe/bow), maybe there's a hint there that maybe something could be done to make single weapon levelers such as my self can compete w.o having to use str weapons.
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#1 2013/11/15 18:15:06 |
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PATHOLOGIST |
If you're getting too much % per stat, you should start to train another, say, int until you are a higher level.
So the next level you will be gaining % slower, therefore getting stats in less % If you want to play with 1 weapon only, I know its a complete nerf to do it, but there's always Dsoma :p But I completely agree with the low dmg in pvp The tagged system benefits knucklers the least by a long way especially because armour can be tagged too. 4 pieces of tagged armor, and possibly a shield is a much much bigger gain in defence than the low dmg of a knuckle being tagged.
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[quote="PATHOLOGIST"]If you're getting too much % per stat, you should start to train another, say, int until you are a higher level.
So the next level you will be gaining % slower, therefore getting stats in less %
If you want to play with 1 weapon only, I know its a complete nerf to do it, but there's always Dsoma :p
But I completely agree with the low dmg in pvp
The tagged system benefits knucklers the least by a long way especially because armour can be tagged too.
4 pieces of tagged armor, and possibly a shield is a much much bigger gain in defence than the low dmg of a knuckle being tagged.[/quote]
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#2 2013/11/15 20:25:57 |
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CHOJINE |
Knuckle is amazing end game, if you get 100 dex and then go axe till cap.
You have to decide whether you want very high dex and int or very high dex and very high str. I'm personally aiming for 100 dex with nuk, then pure axe to lvl 100, int wise i'll get 100 for shiro wand and nm set. People always neglect nuk for endgame pvp, but imagine if Flesh had skilled nuk.
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[quote="CHOJINE"]Knuckle is amazing end game, if you get 100 dex and then go axe till cap.
You have to decide whether you want very high dex and int or very high dex and very high str.
I'm personally aiming for 100 dex with nuk, then pure axe to lvl 100, int wise i'll get 100 for shiro wand and nm set.
People always neglect nuk for endgame pvp, but imagine if Flesh had skilled nuk.[/quote]
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#3 2013/11/15 22:45:51 |
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GREATERIX |
"PATHOLOGIST"If you're getting too much % per stat, you should start to train another, say, int until you are a higher level. tbh I don't think it's much about % per stat but time per stat - the % is lower at a higher level, yes, but it takes longer to get that %. I did some axe upto hero once I reached Disp armor (67 dex) - at 75+, with knux I was getting .1str in 1hr45mins, dex 45mins-1hr. As soon as I switched to axe, I was getting .1str in 20-30mins, and dex - a long time =P I was tempted to time dex with bow, to see what the times were - I reckon it can't be more than 30-45mins. So time wise you'd probably get str/dex alot quicker as bow/axe, and the only benefit you get is A-speed attack. However, with the Epic Saw knux I picked up last night, I hopefully wont complain about knux again xD
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[quote="GREATERIX"][quote="PATHOLOGIST"]If you're getting too much % per stat, you should start to train another, say, int until you are a higher level.
So the next level you will be gaining % slower, therefore getting stats in less %[/quote]
tbh I don't think it's much about % per stat but time per stat - the % is lower at a higher level, yes, but it takes longer to get that %.
I did some axe upto hero once I reached Disp armor (67 dex) - at 75+, with knux I was getting .1str in 1hr45mins, dex 45mins-1hr.
As soon as I switched to axe, I was getting .1str in 20-30mins, and dex - a long time =P
I was tempted to time dex with bow, to see what the times were - I reckon it can't be more than 30-45mins.
So time wise you'd probably get str/dex alot quicker as bow/axe, and the only benefit you get is A-speed attack.
However, with the Epic Saw knux I picked up last night, I hopefully wont complain about knux again xD[/quote]
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#4 2013/11/16 00:29:05 |
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NITE |
As soon as I switched to axe, I was getting .1str in 20-30mins, and dex - a long time =P This is exactly what i mean. Pure Sword = No Problem Pure Bow = No Problem (ask rage) Pure Spear = Fast STR gains but needs 2nd weapon for dex. (Most choose bow) Pure axe = Fast STR gains but needs 2nd weapon for dex. (most choose bow) Pure Knuckle = Slow Str gains and slow Dex gains. Making it the worst weapon I don't like that I've had to start axe for str.
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[quote="NITE"] [quote=] As soon as I switched to axe, I was getting .1str in 20-30mins, and dex - a long time =P
I was tempted to time dex with bow, to see what the times were - I reckon it can't be more than 30-45mins.
So time wise you'd probably get str/dex alot quicker as bow/axe, and the only benefit you get is A-speed attack.
However, with the Epic Saw knux I picked up last night, I hopefully wont complain about knux again xD[/quote]
This is exactly what i mean.
Pure Sword = No Problem
Pure Bow = No Problem (ask rage)
Pure Spear = Fast STR gains but needs 2nd weapon for dex. (Most choose bow)
Pure axe = Fast STR gains but needs 2nd weapon for dex. (most choose bow)
Pure Knuckle = Slow Str gains and slow Dex gains. Making it the worst weapon
I don't like that I've had to start axe for str.[/quote]
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#5 2013/11/16 14:02:54 |
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GREATERIX |
"NITE"As soon as I switched to axe, I was getting .1str in 20-30mins, and dex - a long time =P 100% with you. I'd love love love to see knuckles give a decent chunk of evasion - similar to hero boots dare I say it. Afterall, we keep getting told Dex is king :P Being able to evade hits to get close enough to do some damage, and being able to avoid mob hits would be a great compromise + make it worthwhile.
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[quote="GREATERIX"][quote="NITE"] [quote=] As soon as I switched to axe, I was getting .1str in 20-30mins, and dex - a long time =P
I was tempted to time dex with bow, to see what the times were - I reckon it can't be more than 30-45mins.
So time wise you'd probably get str/dex alot quicker as bow/axe, and the only benefit you get is A-speed attack.
However, with the Epic Saw knux I picked up last night, I hopefully wont complain about knux again xD[/quote]
This is exactly what i mean.
Pure Sword = No Problem
Pure Bow = No Problem (ask rage)
Pure Spear = Fast STR gains but needs 2nd weapon for dex. (Most choose bow)
Pure axe = Fast STR gains but needs 2nd weapon for dex. (most choose bow)
Pure Knuckle = Slow Str gains and slow Dex gains. Making it the worst weapon
I don't like that I've had to start axe for str.[/quote]
100% with you.
I'd love love love to see knuckles give a decent chunk of evasion - similar to hero boots dare I say it. Afterall, we keep getting told Dex is king :P
Being able to evade hits to get close enough to do some damage, and being able to avoid mob hits would be a great compromise + make it worthwhile.[/quote]
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#6 2013/11/16 14:31:04 |
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ISYLVER [Staff] |
Knuckle already has a better dodge aura and it wont be changing for some time.
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#7 2013/11/16 14:56:51 |
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GREATERIX |
"ISYLVER"Knuckle already has a better dodge aura and it wont be changing for some time. That's cool, if you don't want to use any other aura at any time. but tbh you always have to hunt with 1st aura to kill things quicker to get stats at a more reasonable rate.
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[quote="GREATERIX"][quote="ISYLVER"]Knuckle already has a better dodge aura and it wont be changing for some time. [/quote]
That's cool, if you don't want to use any other aura at any time.
but tbh you always have to hunt with 1st aura to kill things quicker to get stats at a more reasonable rate.[/quote]
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#8 2013/11/16 15:14:55 |
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CHOJINE |
Knuckle gains more dex per 10 levels than a player who uses bow / axe combo and switched at each level up.
The thing with knuckle is you have to look at the light at the end of the tunnel. Get dex soft cap, then get strength, then revel in PvP at your high damage, freight train-esque hitting A speed fist of doom. The 10% dodge knuckle currently has is sufficient, and is a marked improvement from its previous 8% incarnation. I have always said knuckle is a struggle mid game, but you have to push through it to the end game epicness.
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[quote="CHOJINE"]Knuckle gains more dex per 10 levels than a player who uses bow / axe combo and switched at each level up.
The thing with knuckle is you have to look at the light at the end of the tunnel.
Get dex soft cap, then get strength, then revel in PvP at your high damage, freight train-esque hitting A speed fist of doom.
The 10% dodge knuckle currently has is sufficient, and is a marked improvement from its previous 8% incarnation.
I have always said knuckle is a struggle mid game, but you have to push through it to the end game epicness.[/quote]
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#9 2013/11/16 17:05:18 |
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ACE |
Plum managed fine pure knuckle, u have just hit the slow down where stats do take hours for .1
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#10 2013/11/16 17:33:26 |
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JARAGOONDOO |
Knuckle is fine right now, IMO. Damage will remain low until your reach end-game weapons.
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#11 2013/11/17 02:26:37 |
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FUJITORA |
"JARAGOONDOO"Knuckle is fine right now, IMO. Damage will remain low until your reach end-game weapons. And even then it still remains low: --------------------------------------------- rare------------------------epic Apus bow .................26-40..............~31-48..........................~33-52 Raptor knuckle ........27-29.................. ~32-35......................~35-38 Knuckle has the lowest recoil of all weps 800, and since the way the tagging system works, tagged knuks will get much less recoil lowered on tags than other weps, so again knuk is losing out here... And being the lowest attack out of the lot of weps it also gains the least from bonus attack in the form of tags. Im not complaining tbh, but im just saying the tagging system gives the least benefit to Knuk users.
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[quote="FUJITORA"][quote="JARAGOONDOO"]Knuckle is fine right now, IMO. Damage will remain low until your reach end-game weapons.[/quote]
And even then it still remains low:
--------------------------------------------- rare------------------------epic
Apus bow .................26-40..............~31-48..........................~33-52
Raptor knuckle ........27-29.................. ~32-35......................~35-38
Knuckle has the lowest recoil of all weps 800, and since the way the tagging system works, tagged knuks will get much less recoil lowered on tags than other weps, so again knuk is losing out here...
And being the lowest attack out of the lot of weps it also gains the least from bonus attack in the form of tags.
Im not complaining tbh, but im just saying the tagging system gives the least benefit to Knuk users.[/quote]
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#12 2013/11/17 02:54:52 |
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JARAGOONDOO |
"FUJITORA""JARAGOONDOO"Knuckle is fine right now, IMO. Damage will remain low until your reach end-game weapons. I can understand why you think the tagged system doesn't benefit knuckle as much as the other weapons as I used to think the same, but if look at the weapon as a whole and compare in terms of DPS (and not the numbers displayed on the weapon), you'll see there is no imbalance with the tag system.
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[quote="JARAGOONDOO"][quote="FUJITORA"][quote="JARAGOONDOO"]Knuckle is fine right now, IMO. Damage will remain low until your reach end-game weapons.[/quote]
And even then it still remains low:
--------------------------------------------- rare------------------------epic
Apus bow .................26-40..............~31-48..........................~33-52
Raptor knuckle ........27-29.................. ~32-35......................~35-38
Knuckle has the lowest recoil of all weps 800, and since the way the tagging system works, tagged knuks will get much less recoil lowered on tags than other weps, so again knuk is losing out here...
And being the lowest attack out of the lot of weps it also gains the least from bonus attack in the form of tags.
Im not complaining tbh, but im just saying the tagging system gives the least benefit to Knuk users.[/quote]
I can understand why you think the tagged system doesn't benefit knuckle as much as the other weapons as I used to think the same, but if look at the weapon as a whole and compare in terms of DPS (and not the numbers displayed on the weapon), you'll see there is no imbalance with the tag system.[/quote]
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#13 2013/11/17 03:11:57 |
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PATHOLOGIST |
"JARAGOONDOO""FUJITORA""JARAGOONDOO"Knuckle is fine right now, IMO. Damage will remain low until your reach end-game weapons. Jara, please explain, because I really don't understand how you come to that conclusion... The tagged system favours items with higher figures, the exact reason humans say it benefits Devils more, which is true, and why Staves get almost no increase in dmg even when intense. Yes it's true a knuckle's dmg does also go up with the tags, but the increase does not compare to the already stronger weapons. The DPS increase on knuckle is lower than the other weapons. The attack speed and attack dmg is DPS (damage per second). If attack and speed increases less per tag on a knuckle, that means the DPS Increase is less on a knuckle. It's simple really
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[quote="PATHOLOGIST"][quote="JARAGOONDOO"][quote="FUJITORA"][quote="JARAGOONDOO"]Knuckle is fine right now, IMO. Damage will remain low until your reach end-game weapons.[/quote]
And even then it still remains low:
--------------------------------------------- rare------------------------epic
Apus bow .................26-40..............~31-48..........................~33-52
Raptor knuckle ........27-29.................. ~32-35......................~35-38
Knuckle has the lowest recoil of all weps 800, and since the way the tagging system works, tagged knuks will get much less recoil lowered on tags than other weps, so again knuk is losing out here...
And being the lowest attack out of the lot of weps it also gains the least from bonus attack in the form of tags.
Im not complaining tbh, but im just saying the tagging system gives the least benefit to Knuk users.[/quote]
I can understand why you think the tagged system doesn't benefit knuckle as much as the other weapons as I used to think the same, but if look at the weapon as a whole and compare in terms of DPS (and not the numbers displayed on the weapon), you'll see there is no imbalance with the tag system.[/quote]
Jara, please explain, because I really don't understand how you come to that conclusion...
The tagged system favours items with higher figures, the exact reason humans say it benefits Devils more, which is true, and why Staves get almost no increase in dmg even when intense.
Yes it's true a knuckle's dmg does also go up with the tags, but the increase does not compare to the already stronger weapons.
The DPS increase on knuckle is lower than the other weapons.
The attack speed and attack dmg is DPS (damage per second). If attack and speed increases less per tag on a knuckle, that means the DPS Increase is less on a knuckle.
It's simple really[/quote]
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#14 2013/11/17 14:19:51 |
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NITE |
Thanks for comment guys, I believe that knuck needs higher dps (attack) so that the tagged system helps us.
I hope something can be done soon ish. I am considering goin bow because of this. It isnt the only reason tho. Bow is a much better PVP weapon. |
#15 2013/11/17 19:31:47 |
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