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[quote="FLICKTHEBEAN"][b][18/03/2014] - Thread has been re-opened at page 5.[/b] As everyone knows 2nd spear is basicly the only often used one, i suggest making 3rd more viable for use, spear users lack a shield and lack a defensive aura such as PD, so moving onto monsters is very difficult. If 3rd cast time was reduced, or power was upped to not do just 50% damage, it could be more viable for use and help with the transition onto the next monsters up. Slight tinkering with both power and cast time may be best option, but would require a fair bit of testing. 4th could also do with a damage boost to make the cooldown worth the time over 2nd, or again, a reduce in cooldown. I'm not sure this will get many votes of confidence as there are very few spear users, most will have turned to a full-time dex weapon, or plan to, however I would like for a GM to look into spear auras so we aren't just going to rely on 2nd for everything, forever. 5th aura would probably also need a re-buff if 3rd was changed to any new specifications. Although I cannot remember 5ths cooldown time or power so I can't say for sure. I do not want to make spear an overpowered weapon, I would just like more variety in aura uses. As it stands, I will never use 3rd as my DPS would take significant losses and the HP stolen would not be enough to counter-act how much longer a monster takes to die and therefore how many more hits i'd take. In it's current state I do not see it as a viable aura to ever use.[/quote]

[quote="CORAXX"]I always thought that 3rd did the same damage but you recived 50% of the damage back as health not that it just did 50% damage and you got that ammount in HP[/quote]

[quote="FLICKTHEBEAN"]Tested on the dummy to make sure I wasn't over-zealous with my assumption of half damage, indeed I did half damage with it.[/quote]

[quote="TRICEPTIMOUS"]3rd should be the same as 2nd, but with 100% hp drain with longer cooldown than second, or improved power,longer cool down, and 50% hp drain. [/quote]

[quote="TAKESHI"]I agree spear needs to be looked at, 2nd is great but apart from that the others are pretty useless[/quote]

[quote="CYROX"]Agreed. There was a thread about spear a couple of weeks ago indicating the same. Unfortunately it did not get a lot of attention (due to limited number of spear users) and therefore nothing came of the discussion. [/quote]

[quote="YOSHIMITSU"]3rd should stay the same but have the cooldown reduced greatly [/quote]

[quote="I0_0I"] I'm not sure why but I've never played spear so I'd like to hear the opinion of some devil spear toons, as any change would affect them more than on the human side where spear can be a me too weapon. TBH I don't even know what spear auras are... 1 ~ 5?[/quote]

[quote="YOSHIMITSU"]1st standard 2nd is a guaranteed hit every 6 seconds? 3rd is 50% hp drain, 25 sec cooldown? 4th is standard 4th 5th is 150% hp drain 25 sec cooldown? [/quote]

[quote="NEOXIAN"]As a level 65 spear user hunting kharil lizards my opinion is the following:- it's apparent that spear is lacking behind in terms of a viable way of defense and not rinsing pots. It's a struggle from level 1 as a spear although is partially alleviated with 2nd as it makes up for our poor dex and high useage of pots. 2nd enables you to level just slightly quicker than other melee at that bracket. When you reach low-mid level spear is on par with other melee's for kill speed. Moving on to mid-higher level, Axers either have ridiculous lvling speed or insane defense which enables mobs to be hunted earlier. Sword has a shield and 3rd aura which means they can hunt mobs earlier, Archers have insane dex, range and dodge so pot runs are less frequent and mobs can be kited like ab's and kharil lizards a lot earlier than melee (although raw levelling speed is slightly lower) Knux has incredible levelling speed with a 4th aura that is more powerful than spear 2nd with option of 3rd and 5th as well as dodge if required. This puts spear in a sort of limbo, YES we hit hard (if we hit) and 2nd can be perceived as overpowered in pvp but it's truly our only positive as you can count 8 seconds and be ready to pot. The problem is we are just a one trick pony that holds right button down for 2nd religiously as no other aura grants a bonus EXCEPT 5th in [b]duels[/b] as 2nd is superior even for stone tanking due to offense>defense. We have no barr left to hunt wbm with later in game. My suggestion? Sword and Axe both have 2nd aura that scales on stats or weight. I believe 3rd aura for spear should scale as well. 2nd is still going to be the go-to for levelling but it would be nice to be able to ping a 3rd for a bit of HP to reduce pot consumption in between 2nd. 3rd is a 20 second cooldown. make it so every 10 weapon skill it is reduced by 1 second. This means every 8 seconds at skill cap you can get a 50% return on your damage which against war beast miners is never going to be gamebreaking. I also believe (as I mentioned on a previous post) 4th aura for spear should be range 2 to match the synergy of spear being range 2 auto attack and range 2 second aura. 1st is +5 dmg per hit while active. (standard) 2nd is a guaranteed hit +5 dmg every 8 seconds (range 2) penetrates 2 targets in a straight line. 3rd is a guaranteed hit that returns 50% of damage done every 20 seconds (range 2) single target 4th is a guaranteed hit +35 dmg every 30 seconds (standard) (range 1) 5th is a guaranteed hit that returns 100% of damage done every 20 seconds (range 2) single target Note:- 3rd and 5th have a damage cap of 50% of a mobs hp to prevent using nub mobs for high gains. Note 2:- I made a post at lvl 40 and said spear was perfectly balanced, it's only now at kharil lizards the game has changed for the worst for spear as a class.[/quote]

[quote="AYLA"]I have to say the range 2 for 4th sounds right to me.[/quote]

[quote="THEMAT"]I've joked about this with Dan a lot. But 3rd is absolute shit. I have 90+ str and had to stay at Wraiths longer than everyone else because DW's raped me. 2nd Spear is awesome but it definitely doesn't make up for the amount of time we have to spend at mobs before progressing.[/quote]

[quote="GHOSTLORD"]I believe 3rd/5th should be put back to what ESoma had just before closing down. 2nd is fine as said, 4th could use a slight buff.[/quote]

[quote="FLICKTHEBEAN"][quote="THEMAT"]I've joked about this with Dan a lot. But 3rd is absolute shit. I have 90+ str and had to stay at Wraiths longer than everyone else because DW's raped me. 2nd Spear is awesome but it definitely doesn't make up for the amount of time we have to spend at mobs before progressing.[/quote] Yes I had the same issue of over-staying mobs due to lack of defence. [quote="GHOSTLORD"]I believe 3rd/5th should be put back to what ESoma had just before closing down. 2nd is fine as said, 4th could use a slight buff.[/quote] What did e-soma have these skills doing just before end? I was not a spear user on e-soma and this is the first time I have used it on a slow-rate server. [quote="I0_0I"]I'm not sure why but I've never played spear so I'd like to hear the opinion of some devil spear toons, as any change would affect them more than on the human side where spear can be a me too weapon.[/quote] Yes it will obviously effect a dsoma spear user far more than the human side as we will most certainly choose a dex weapon alongside it. So with D-soma in mind, balance must be kept. However there are many changes that could be done to make spear a more viable class on both sides.[/quote]

[quote="GHOSTLORD"]I beileve 3rd was 100 or 75% and 5th was 150%.[/quote]