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NEOXIAN |
I have tested it now for a couple levels and as much as I appreciate the small boost Isylver I have to say it has made no impact whatsoever, it's still essentially a worthless aura as will be 5th... I for one will not sacrifice a strong accessory or something else that may be added for pos or the potentially introduced sacred aura spirits to gain 5th spear aura.
The thing is if you took 2nd spear away or NERFED it then spear as a class would be shit and i would probably quit. But nothing else compares to 2nd for a poke. Currently 5th sword hitting as hard as it does on MULTIPLE targets is extremely game imbalancing overpowered with devil swordies 2h weapon dmg but i am aware this is most likely here to stay, so... Spear 3rd and 5th need to be on a massively lower cool down or they are and always will be useless. Currently they have a 20 second cool down to 2nd spears 8. I think they should be lowered to 14 seconds or at the very least be 100% and 150% (to match swordies) and have a 16 second cool down (double that of 2nd)
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[quote="NEOXIAN"]I have tested it now for a couple levels and as much as I appreciate the small boost Isylver I have to say it has made no impact whatsoever, it's still essentially a worthless aura as will be 5th... I for one will not sacrifice a strong accessory or something else that may be added for pos or the potentially introduced sacred aura spirits to gain 5th spear aura.
The thing is if you took 2nd spear away or NERFED it then spear as a class would be shit and i would probably quit. But nothing else compares to 2nd for a poke.
Currently 5th sword hitting as hard as it does on MULTIPLE targets is extremely game imbalancing overpowered with devil swordies 2h weapon dmg but i am aware this is most likely here to stay, so...
Spear 3rd and 5th need to be on a massively lower cool down or they are and always will be useless. Currently they have a 20 second cool down to 2nd spears 8. I think they should be lowered to 14 seconds or at the very least be 100% and 150% (to match swordies) and have a 16 second cool down (double that of 2nd) [/quote]
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#46 2014/01/04 17:52:32 |
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GRAVIJA |
I still dont think people realise how 5th sword works. 150% sounds alot, but its only 150% of your damage done. I garuntee you if carnage 5thd slayer and then 4thd him the damage would be very similar.
Obviously it scales alot better when you do more damage to someone but that just means they're significantly lower level than yourself. As for 3rd spear I can't comment entirely but it seems to me if you wanted to you could hunt KL without any pots but obviously choose not too because 2nd is faster to level with. Its a different aura that has a different purpose, but for the purpose it does I think it does quite well. (3rd/5th spear)
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[quote="GRAVIJA"]I still dont think people realise how 5th sword works. 150% sounds alot, but its only 150% of your damage done. I garuntee you if carnage 5thd slayer and then 4thd him the damage would be very similar.
Obviously it scales alot better when you do more damage to someone but that just means they're significantly lower level than yourself.
As for 3rd spear I can't comment entirely but it seems to me if you wanted to you could hunt KL without any pots but obviously choose not too because 2nd is faster to level with. Its a different aura that has a different purpose, but for the purpose it does I think it does quite well. (3rd/5th spear)[/quote]
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#47 2014/01/04 21:41:33 |
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TRICEPTIMOUS |
I think I have potentially found a bug with 3rd, (correct me if im wrong). But it is meant to absorb 75% of your damage done?
Currently i when i hit the dummy in town normally ill hit around 101-110 using 2nd its like 108-115. However when using 3rd it only hits 77-81. So we are actually only absorbing around 45-50 hp. Is this wrong? Shouldnt it still be hitting the 101-110? Cant even one hit a bric when i use 3rd lol.
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[quote="TRICEPTIMOUS"]I think I have potentially found a bug with 3rd, (correct me if im wrong). But it is meant to absorb 75% of your damage done?
Currently i when i hit the dummy in town normally ill hit around 101-110 using 2nd its like 108-115. However when using 3rd it only hits 77-81. So we are actually only absorbing around 45-50 hp.
Is this wrong? Shouldnt it still be hitting the 101-110?
Cant even one hit a bric when i use 3rd lol. [/quote]
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#48 2014/01/05 11:36:06 |
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ACAELUS |
"GRAVIJA"I still dont think people realise how 5th sword works. 150% sounds alot, but its only 150% of your damage done. I garuntee you if carnage 5thd slayer and then 4thd him the damage would be very similar. Totally agree, it seems op if you use it on someone significantly lower strength but when I use it on someone within 10.0 of my strength it does hardly any damage at all.
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[quote="ACAELUS"][quote="GRAVIJA"]I still dont think people realise how 5th sword works. 150% sounds alot, but its only 150% of your damage done. I garuntee you if carnage 5thd slayer and then 4thd him the damage would be very similar.
Obviously it scales alot better when you do more damage to someone but that just means they're significantly lower level than yourself.[/quote]
Totally agree, it seems op if you use it on someone significantly lower strength but when I use it on someone within 10.0 of my strength it does hardly any damage at all.[/quote]
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#49 2014/01/05 13:06:35 |
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S0RCERER |
4th = 100% hit + 35 (guaranteed damage).
5th = 150% hit If you hit someone for 50 damage with your normal swing: 4th = 50dmg + 35dmg = 85dmg (4th) 5th = 50*1.5 = 75dmg (5th) 5th only becomes worth using once you do above 70 dmg with a normal swing: 4th = 70dmg + 35dmg = 105dmg (4th) 5th = 70*1.5 = 105dmg (5th) This makes 5th a good noob-killer, but not that great vs. people that have the same str as you and it's abysmal vs. people stronger than yourself. If your normal swing does 100 dmg to a lower level player results are as follows: 4th = 100dmg + 35dmg = 135dmg (4th) 5th = 100*1.5 = 150dmg (5th) This gap only gets bigger and bigger the larger the already existing gap is between the 'noob' and the sword user.
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[quote="S0RCERER"]4th = 100% hit + 35 (guaranteed damage).
5th = 150% hit
If you hit someone for 50 damage with your normal swing:
4th = 50dmg + 35dmg = 85dmg (4th)
5th = 50*1.5 = 75dmg (5th)
5th only becomes worth using once you do above 70 dmg with a normal swing:
4th = 70dmg + 35dmg = 105dmg (4th)
5th = 70*1.5 = 105dmg (5th)
This makes 5th a good noob-killer, but not that great vs. people that have the same str as you and it's abysmal vs. people stronger than yourself.
If your normal swing does 100 dmg to a lower level player results are as follows:
4th = 100dmg + 35dmg = 135dmg (4th)
5th = 100*1.5 = 150dmg (5th)
This gap only gets bigger and bigger the larger the already existing gap is between the 'noob' and the sword user.[/quote]
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#50 2014/01/05 17:13:35 |
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ACAELUS |
So basically, go axe. Despite its nurf to B speed its still rediciously over powered. (on hsoma)
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#51 2014/01/05 17:33:43 |
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S0RCERER |
"ACAELUS"So basically, go axe. Despite its nurf to B speed its still rediciously over powered. (on hsoma) Or go spear for PVP. (Bow is king due to range, but talking damage here). |
#52 2014/01/05 17:52:46 |
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GILGAMESH |
"S0RCERER""ACAELUS"So basically, go axe. Despite its nurf to B speed its still rediciously over powered. (on hsoma) especially as there's no 2handed axe/sword for pvp dmg
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[quote="GILGAMESH"][quote="S0RCERER"][quote="ACAELUS"]So basically, go axe. Despite its nurf to B speed its still rediciously over powered. (on hsoma)[/quote]
Or go spear for PVP. (Bow is king due to range, but talking damage here).[/quote]
especially as there's no 2handed axe/sword for pvp dmg[/quote]
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#53 2014/01/05 18:34:52 |
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S0RCERER |
"GILGAMESH""S0RCERER""ACAELUS"So basically, go axe. Despite its nurf to B speed its still rediciously over powered. (on hsoma) The grass isn't greener on the other side, Spear has higher damage than sword and axe doesn't have an offensive aura allowing it to Combo. Spear is the weapon with the highest potential damage output vs. players of equal level.
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[quote="S0RCERER"][quote="GILGAMESH"][quote="S0RCERER"][quote="ACAELUS"]So basically, go axe. Despite its nurf to B speed its still rediciously over powered. (on hsoma)[/quote]
Or go spear for PVP. (Bow is king due to range, but talking damage here).[/quote]
especially as there's no 2handed axe/sword for pvp dmg[/quote]
The grass isn't greener on the other side, Spear has higher damage than sword and axe doesn't have an offensive aura allowing it to Combo.
Spear is the weapon with the highest potential damage output vs. players of equal level.[/quote]
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#54 2014/01/05 18:45:48 |
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ACAELUS |
"S0RCERER""GILGAMESH""S0RCERER""ACAELUS"So basically, go axe. Despite its nurf to B speed its still rediciously over powered. (on hsoma) Highest potential single attack yeah, will never match up dps wise against a 2 handed axe of similar level. Unless someone somehow manages to get their ruby spear close to speed B lol Imo axe still has the overwhelming advantage in both pvp and efficient hunting. (Post 4th aura and not including bow)
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[quote="ACAELUS"][quote="S0RCERER"][quote="GILGAMESH"][quote="S0RCERER"][quote="ACAELUS"]So basically, go axe. Despite its nurf to B speed its still rediciously over powered. (on hsoma)[/quote]
Or go spear for PVP. (Bow is king due to range, but talking damage here).[/quote]
especially as there's no 2handed axe/sword for pvp dmg[/quote]
The grass isn't greener on the other side, Spear has higher damage than sword and axe doesn't have an offensive aura allowing it to Combo.
Spear is the weapon with the highest potential damage output vs. players of equal level.[/quote]
Highest potential single attack yeah, will never match up dps wise against a 2 handed axe of similar level. Unless someone somehow manages to get their ruby spear close to speed B lol
Imo axe still has the overwhelming advantage in both pvp and efficient hunting. (Post 4th aura and not including bow)
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#55 2014/01/05 19:31:39 |
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S0RCERER |
Axe is best for hunting + gains, it isn't better for PVP as PVP is all about burst damage.
It is great in group PVP due to paralysis though. In a short window, a spear can output more damage than any axe as you can do a double-attack in a single strike (aura + normal strike). Grab an -M tag spear and you'll have a Spell+hit+aura. Lets say you hit someone with an axe for 60, 55 with a spear and 50 with a sword. You also hit 80 with each dragonbreath. Axe: 60+80 = 140 Spear = (55+5)+55+80 = 195 - this is using 2nd Spear = (55+35)+55+80 = 225 - this is using 4th Sword = (50+35)+80 = 215
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[quote="S0RCERER"]Axe is best for hunting + gains, it isn't better for PVP as PVP is all about burst damage.
It is great in group PVP due to paralysis though.
In a short window, a spear can output more damage than any axe as you can do a double-attack in a single strike (aura + normal strike).
Grab an -M tag spear and you'll have a Spell+hit+aura.
Lets say you hit someone with an axe for 60, 55 with a spear and 50 with a sword.
You also hit 80 with each dragonbreath.
Axe: 60+80 = 140
Spear = (55+5)+55+80 = 195 - this is using 2nd
Spear = (55+35)+55+80 = 225 - this is using 4th
Sword = (50+35)+80 = 215[/quote]
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#56 2014/01/05 20:19:02 |
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CYROX |
Sorc, i agree with a lot you say. Being a spear user myself (altho not my main currently) i do see the benefits of spear in pvp and think it is balanced with axe on 1v1 with someone of similar stats.
However...spear has a HUGE levelling disadvantage compared to axe. Axe is massively more efficient due to shield+2nd aura combo. Therefore, 2 characters who have put in identicle hours into the game, axe will have a substantially more stats and therefore ultimately winning the PVP fight anyway. I dont think any changes are needed pvp, i think there are two small tweaks that could be made to help balance things. Either; - Spear needs something to help its effiency whilst levelling - Or ToE's and SS's need reverting back to esoma equivilant
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[quote="CYROX"]Sorc, i agree with a lot you say. Being a spear user myself (altho not my main currently) i do see the benefits of spear in pvp and think it is balanced with axe on 1v1 with someone of similar stats.
However...spear has a HUGE levelling disadvantage compared to axe. Axe is massively more efficient due to shield+2nd aura combo. Therefore, 2 characters who have put in identicle hours into the game, axe will have a substantially more stats and therefore ultimately winning the PVP fight anyway.
I dont think any changes are needed pvp, i think there are two small tweaks that could be made to help balance things. Either;
- Spear needs something to help its effiency whilst levelling
- Or ToE's and SS's need reverting back to esoma equivilant[/quote]
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#57 2014/01/05 22:31:00 |
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ACAELUS |
"S0RCERER"Axe is best for hunting + gains, it isn't better for PVP as PVP is all about burst damage. PKing is about burst damage and surprise attacks. In which case anyone using range 1 or 2 weapons arnt going to excel unless your killing people 20 levels below you. So a spear user will probably have a staff or bow equipped. Like you said in group pvp paralysis can be the only way to get a kill. In any other pvp situation like gvw (when people have their 100+ hp pots) dps is king. Axe 2nd is amazing Axe 4th is amazing Axe 3rd/5th is amazing Sword 2nd wont get used past lvl 30 Sword 4th redundant Sword 3rd/5th latter only good against people much lower strength, former is just a extra hit Spear 2nd good Spear 4th redundant Spear 3rd/5th situational but mostly redundant Knuckle auras - lol Yes the only thing axe lacks is burst damage but I think when you really need burst damage it's in situations were you need range so everyone will have their bows equipped. Imo if axe, the slowest recoil/highest attack weapon gets speed aura then surely by the same logic Knuckle, the fastest recoil/lowest attack weapon should have a aura to permanently increase it's damage to something just under axe? (I realise this is a ridiculous suggestion but I think the same ridiculousness applies to 4th axe) None of the above applies to dsoma
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[quote="ACAELUS"][quote="S0RCERER"]Axe is best for hunting + gains, it isn't better for PVP as PVP is all about burst damage.
It is great in group PVP due to paralysis though.
In a short window, a spear can output more damage than any axe as you can do a double-attack in a single strike (aura + normal strike).[/quote]
PKing is about burst damage and surprise attacks. In which case anyone using range 1 or 2 weapons arnt going to excel unless your killing people 20 levels below you. So a spear user will probably have a staff or bow equipped.
Like you said in group pvp paralysis can be the only way to get a kill. In any other pvp situation like gvw (when people have their 100+ hp pots) dps is king.
Axe 2nd is amazing
Axe 4th is amazing
Axe 3rd/5th is amazing
Sword 2nd wont get used past lvl 30
Sword 4th redundant
Sword 3rd/5th latter only good against people much lower strength, former is just a extra hit
Spear 2nd good
Spear 4th redundant
Spear 3rd/5th situational but mostly redundant
Knuckle auras - lol
Yes the only thing axe lacks is burst damage but I think when you really need burst damage it's in situations were you need range so everyone will have their bows equipped.
Imo if axe, the slowest recoil/highest attack weapon gets speed aura then surely by the same logic Knuckle, the fastest recoil/lowest attack weapon should have a aura to permanently increase it's damage to something just under axe? (I realise this is a ridiculous suggestion but I think the same ridiculousness applies to 4th axe)
[b]None of the above applies to dsoma[/b][/quote]
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#58 2014/01/06 06:43:26 |
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TRICEPTIMOUS |
Thread gone a little off Topic, can we get back to constructive comments on how to improve spear please ^^ |
#59 2014/01/06 09:20:03 |
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ACAELUS |
Hard to talk about spear auras without comparing all the weapons. Part of buffing spears could be nurfing other weapons.
There is another thread that isylver responded positively to that talked about being able to equip an addional accessory in the unused shield slot for spear users.
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[quote="ACAELUS"]Hard to talk about spear auras without comparing all the weapons. Part of buffing spears could be nurfing other weapons.
There is another thread that isylver responded positively to that talked about being able to equip an addional accessory in the unused shield slot for spear users.[/quote]
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#60 2014/01/06 10:14:16 |
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