The Forum

[quote="FLICKTHEBEAN"]I'm bumping up this thread as I'm now back to using a spear. This weapon is completely useless when compared to other weapons in PvE situations. The "buff" to 3rd and 5th spear (I am only commenting on 3rd as it's the only one I have) made no difference in it being at all usefull, so the testing phase on aura buff seems to have flopped. However I suggest making cooldown equal to 2nd spear and the buff reversed back to 50% damage leached as life. (for a test phase) I would like this to be tested and I will reply about it in an un-bias manner. As I would ask any current spear users (if there are any left) to do the same, if changes were made. I am not looking for an over-powered weapon, just one that can be viable PvE, which spear, currently, is not. The benefits of using a shield alone put spear at a disadvantage to sword/axe as a melee weapon. Not even going to start talking about PD which is a very strange aura for the highest damage weapon in-game to have. However I will continue to use spear and be at a disadvantage even with no changes because having been around the soma block a good few times, axe/bow combo just doesn't hold my attention and brings the game to a boring and predictable climax. Testing cooldown on 3rd spear being the same as 2nd would just negate some of the disadvantages it currently holds: Lower damage than axe (not sure why it is, as the user gets less defence), Lower speeds than axe, (again not sure why with axe having such high damage output.) Swords suffer due to stat gains so I will leave them out of comparisons. I also haven't used sword much on any server other than end-game so I cannot comment on them. Other solutions would be upping the damage on spears to exceed axes (to make sense of the severe lack of defence), or increasing dropped speed to be significantly better. - I think it's too late in the server to make this change. Rundown- Spears: Slowest weapons, not highest damage weapons, least defensive weapons. Please help spear be viable for use.[/quote]

[quote="BRAINDATA"]Not a spear user myself so cant comment from experience, but all points on paper seem perfectly sound. [/quote]

[quote="SILENCE"]It made next to no sense buffing second axe, which didn't need buffing, and leaving 2nd Sword/3rd Spear alone and not touching 4ths in general.[/quote]

[quote="CYROX"]Spear is at a massive disadvantage for lvling compared to axe. Imo (but may be too late) would actually make spear the best str p/xp pve weap. Axe would gain str faster time based but spear xp based. To me it doesn't make sense that the harder weapon to use pve also has slower gains. [/quote]

[quote="MAKKIE"]What about introducing one-handed spears, with lower damage (but obviously allowing the use of a shield). There's plenty of historical precedent. Not sure about the animation, though..[/quote]

[quote="FLICKTHEBEAN"]Spear pokes out the front of the shield, it's quite funny to see, however the idea of allowing the use of a shield with current spears would be nice, laughable animations aside. Or possibly bringing in the offhand items that were suggested elsewhere, giving spears a big boost in DF. My thought are the 3rd aura as suggested at top of page may give just enough hp back to counter-act the problems with lack of shield. Would obviously need testing incase it was too good or didn't do the job. I think spear users should at least be at liberty to hunt the same monsters as the other classes and not over-stay others just to be on par with other classes. Also I must note that all the problems and suggestions I have made are for H-Soma only, as I'm not in a position to discuss D-Soma. I don't have enough information on the Devil classes to make educated assumptions on what is needed for them.[/quote]

[quote="FUJITORA"]And to add to the misery, most people need to toe their spears to be reasonable for hunting (and usually end up breaking many epics in the process resulting in frustration *cough* gilgamesh *cough* rage quit *cough* One will usually need 2-3 toes, probably 3-4 eggpiles (selling at 20 frogs each?) to have a ~15% chance of getting a B speed spear and ~85% chance of having breaking your weapon and toes in the process. Axe on the other hand, just find a nice axe, cast 4th aura and your good to go until cap. Just goes to show in game why theres probably a ratio of like 10:1 axers:spears Doesn't seem fair if you ask me.[/quote]

[quote="JARAGOONDOO"]If we're comparing to Axe, we can see Axe has amazing 2nd (OP, IMO), 3rd, 4th and 5th Auras. Whereas spear only has a strong 2nd aura. 3rd and 5th is nice, but you lose too much leveling speed so I do not see why you would use it... and 4th is just... lol DSoma spears don't feel the leveling speed issue until much later (80+) because DSoma monsters have a lot of defensive dex (so 2nd helps loads with the 100% hit), but they will feel it later once other classes achieve 100% hit rate naturally. EDIT: I do agree Spear needs some buffs.[/quote]

[quote="FLICKTHEBEAN"][quote="JARAGOONDOO"]If we're comparing to Axe, we can see Axe has amazing 2nd (OP, IMO), 3rd, 4th and 5th Auras. Whereas spear only has a strong 2nd aura. 3rd and 5th is nice, but you lose too much leveling speed so I do not see why you would use it... and 4th is just... lol DSoma spears don't feel the leveling speed issue until much later (80+) because DSoma monsters have a lot of defensive dex (so 2nd helps loads with the 100% hit), but they will feel it later once other classes achieve 100% hit rate naturally. EDIT: I do agree Spear needs some buffs.[/quote] It's not only that you lose leveling speed using 3rd (and presumably 5th) it's that you take more damage over-all in the fight due to killing slower, making the hp leach pointless.[/quote]

[quote="BRAINDATA"]I don't buy into the whole its too late to change. A buff of 3rd/4th/5th spear is not a game changer. If it needs balancing then so be it...[/quote]

[quote="RELINA"]Dsoma spear probly in the same boat, tho there damage is slightly better, tho wasn't Dsoma spear spost to have more con than everyone else Think a better fix would be to put 2nd/4th on a different timer to 3rd/5th rather than tryin to make 3rd/5th more usfull [/quote]

[quote="GHOSTLORD"][quote="RELINA"]Dsoma spear probly in the same boat, tho there damage is slightly better, tho wasn't Dsoma spear spost to have more con than everyone else Think a better fix would be to put 2nd/4th on a different timer to 3rd/5th rather than tryin to make 3rd/5th more usfull [/quote] Bow has more con than anyone else, followed by spear.[/quote]

[quote="TRICEPTIMOUS"]Im a low insignificant casual, but i am a spear user, and the hunting disadvantages are quite significant. As it has been mentioned, the buff to 3rd is quite pointless, due to the decrease in lvling speed due to no use of 2nd. Ideas i can think of to help balance are: Increase spear default speed to D Decrease 3rd (and 5th) spear cooldown to equal that of 2nd. Make spear a 1 handed weapon, and a shield can be equipped. Possible to keep the animation as it is? I.e. no shield shown and spear is still 2 handed. Not suggesting all of these changes, just one, to balance things out. [/quote]

[quote="HOJO"]I don't and probably won't ever use 3rd in PvE and I'm not 100% sure of the mechanics of 5th yet so I'll reserve judgement, but I would sooner take the lack of heal in favour of a couple of extra guaranteed hits. Levelling up it was noticeable that I couldn't take mobs as early as others due to lack of shield or dodge aura, but I find kill speed of 2nd helps matters. I think reducing the cooldown on 3rd/5th is a nice idea (and whilst we're at it make 4th range2, and let me hit targets with 2nd in all r2 positions - I.e. Allow slight diagonal hits) but heals every 5 seconds is a bit much, and there is no way I will want to reduce my dps so I would probably continue to use 2nd. My concern is with 5th: is it 125% hit which heals you for 100% of damage dealt, or is it 100% hit which returns 125% of the damage dealt? Because if it is the latter, that won't be getting used either.[/quote]

[quote="TRICEPTIMOUS"][quote="HOJO"]I think reducing the cooldown on 3rd/5th is a nice idea (and whilst we're at it make 4th range2, and let me hit targets with 2nd in all r2 positions - I.e. Allow slight diagonal hits) but heals every 5 seconds is a bit much, and there is no way I will want to reduce my dps so I would probably continue to use 2nd. .[/quote] It wouldnt be too much tho as it would be to counteract the lost 10-10 defence you could gain whilst wearing a shield. [/quote]