| Author | Content | Date |
|---|---|---|
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MITCHY |
Forum summary: -
There is a acknowledgment that there are both short term and long-term needs for the game and that the GM’s time is limited. Short term: - ---------------- Drop overhaul on bosses eg add the chance of a frag / tear to each boss. Normal mob drops eg higher some of the barr on top end mobs. Add in necro stings to prisms and up the drop rate at necro wasps. Increase drop rates as a whole to x4 like at Christmas and maybe can lower them again once some new content is added. Reduce the timer on bosses which drop souls. Work tov so that it’s viable with less players. As currently hsoma is struggling massively. Maybe Devil Soma is ok, need more input on that. Increase normal mobs scroll drops to counter quiet tov runs. Add hard tag only valour weap drops to current top mobs and bosses, Vafer rapter, prism spider, garshuk, Valkyrie queen, negamare. Also add champion of any tag drop to those bosses and mobs (nega already drops champ I know). Ghost upgrade? Both me and Foxtrck think making gear which isn’t champ or valour is okay, it’s only because of the difficulty to obtain valour that people might want a rework of the anvil. But with more drops and easier to obtain and game weaps we personally feel the anvil is fine. Just make someone, anyone reasonably you know, to be a discord mod and forum mod, it doesn't even need to be a lot of admin, people can have banter, people can talk crap but they cross the line sharing information and personal information and use it in a negative way. This erodes trust for anyone that wants to be part of a community and this will take some time to build back. Get these changes made, then work on anything else. I would love if for once this thread could remain civil and only have constructive conversation. Let’s get our heads together and expand on these ideas. Fox & Mitchy. ----
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[quote="MITCHY"]Forum summary: -
There is a acknowledgment that there are both [b]short term[/b] and [b]long-term[/b] needs for the game and that the GM’s time is limited.
[b]Short term: -[/b]
----------------
Drop overhaul on bosses eg add the chance of a frag / tear to each boss.
Normal mob drops eg higher some of the barr on top end mobs. Add in necro stings to prisms and up the drop rate at necro wasps.
Increase drop rates as a whole to x4 like at Christmas and maybe can lower them again once some new content is added.
Reduce the timer on bosses which drop souls.
Work tov so that it’s viable with less players. As currently hsoma is struggling massively. Maybe Devil Soma is ok, need more input on that.
Increase normal mobs scroll drops to counter quiet tov runs.
Add hard tag only valour weap drops to current top mobs and bosses, Vafer rapter, prism spider, garshuk, Valkyrie queen, negamare.
Also add champion of any tag drop to those bosses and mobs (nega already drops champ I know).
Ghost upgrade? Both me and Foxtrck think making gear which isn’t champ or valour is okay, it’s only because of the difficulty to obtain valour that people might want a rework of the anvil. But with more drops and easier to obtain and game weaps we personally feel the anvil is fine.
Just make someone, anyone reasonably you know, to be a discord mod and forum mod, it doesn't even need to be a lot of admin, people can have banter, people can talk crap but they cross the line sharing information and personal information and use it in a negative way. This erodes trust for anyone that wants to be part of a community and this will take some time to build back.
Get these changes made, then work on anything else.
I would love if for once this thread could remain civil and only have constructive conversation.
Let’s get our heads together and expand on these ideas.
Fox & Mitchy.
----[/quote]
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#1 2024/02/23 19:52:02 |
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FOXTRCK |
^^. Left stats and cap raise out of this because its a larger problem and can't be talked about properly without the GM's explaining their vision of where the server is / was going.
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#2 2024/02/23 21:28:42 |
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PROWLER |
Decent ideas.
It’s essential to stop the Cheaters/Botters before any of these suggestions are implemented because they will immediately undermine both the work the GMs do and the benefit to genuine players. That’s especially the case with improved drops from top tier mobs and bosses. I have 0% understanding of computer tech but perhaps some suggestions pointing towards how to stop botters/cheats might be helpful? Two quick (and flawed) ones from me; 1) Approach a computer consultant for advice and/or direction. Obtain a quote for a professional solution and create a “just giving” page (or similar) to fund it. Once funded, implement the anti-cheat upgrade and THEN we can have game improvements that won’t be destroyed by cheats and botters. 2) Set up a message/email hotline for players to report botters/cheats in “real time”. It would be necessary for a GM to be available to respond in-game (I know folk have to sleep). When “caught” (I assume the GMs require actual proof, so seeing it themselves should be enough). Then they ban the PLAYER. Ban all the characters, Ban the IP address, Ban the “person” – permanently. This both removes the cheat/botter and acts as a deterrent to others. It may be an arse to start off with but there are only so many botters/cheats. Other games (Fortnite, Warcraft, etc.) don’t tolerate cheating, and neither should Soma. Remove the scourge from the game. (Those are just two quick (and flawed) suggestions, there will be better ways to address cheating …) You also mentioned the forum (and discord) – it is also essential that the damage to the reputation to the game is stopped as quickly as possible and certainly before any game improvements are made. The state of the forum also undermines the game. Folk should (of course) be free to post their thoughts, ideals and comments as they see fit BUT not when it brings the game into disrepute. Mitchy and Fox are definitely right that this needs moderating properly. Do it first. Jac/Prowler
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[quote="PROWLER"]Decent ideas.
It’s essential to stop the Cheaters/Botters before any of these suggestions are implemented because they will immediately undermine both the work the GMs do and the benefit to genuine players.
That’s especially the case with improved drops from top tier mobs and bosses.
I have 0% understanding of computer tech but perhaps some suggestions pointing towards how to stop botters/cheats might be helpful? Two quick (and flawed) ones from me;
1) Approach a computer consultant for advice and/or direction. Obtain a quote for a professional solution and create a “just giving” page (or similar) to fund it. Once funded, implement the anti-cheat upgrade and THEN we can have game improvements that won’t be destroyed by cheats and botters.
2) Set up a message/email hotline for players to report botters/cheats in “real time”. It would be necessary for a GM to be available to respond in-game (I know folk have to sleep). When “caught” (I assume the GMs require actual proof, so seeing it themselves should be enough). Then they ban the PLAYER. Ban all the characters, Ban the IP address, Ban the “person” – permanently. This both removes the cheat/botter and acts as a deterrent to others. It may be an arse to start off with but there are only so many botters/cheats. Other games (Fortnite, Warcraft, etc.) don’t tolerate cheating, and neither should Soma. Remove the scourge from the game.
(Those are just two quick (and flawed) suggestions, there will be better ways to address cheating …)
You also mentioned the forum (and discord) – it is also essential that the damage to the reputation to the game is stopped as quickly as possible and certainly before any game improvements are made. The state of the forum also undermines the game. Folk should (of course) be free to post their thoughts, ideals and comments as they see fit BUT not when it brings the game into disrepute. Mitchy and Fox are definitely right that this needs moderating properly. Do it first.
Jac/Prowler
[/quote]
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#3 2024/02/23 22:25:37 |
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3D |
Let's be real about the botting. Some/one (who knows how many people actually play the chars now) of the biggest perpetrator(s) was unbanned for who knows what reason. Caught multiple times and anyone who plays on the server knows they were guilty. There's no point looking at ways to stop it if the people caught face no consequence.
You could knock up some detection software, it wouldn't be particularly difficult. You just get locked in an eternal battle though, even if the GMs wanted to stop the botters - which apparently they don't. You don't even need software though, the most egregious could be caught with little effort, as Fin showed previously. Just a shame he, you know, unbanned most of them again. All that aside, people really need to stop with the mentality that changing drops or adding anything to the game is pointless because bots. Bots always existed, who didn't have fun filling up their inventory with wood years and years ago? They only got out of control when the valour update pushed, the economy broke and you had to grind for months to get anywhere. Fwiw the bots exacerbated the breaking of the economy but it was the valour update that *caused* it to break. The server is full of bots regardless and they're probably not all Jaime, so the bizarre and seriously flawed logic of 'no drops cos bots' just doesn't work. It makes no sense and it never did. At least regular players could actually enjoy the game again, bots or not. Do something or it will be *only* bots before long - addressing the primary symptom would be a good place to start.
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[quote="3D"]Let's be real about the botting. Some/one (who knows how many people actually play the chars now) of the biggest perpetrator(s) was unbanned for who knows what reason. Caught multiple times and anyone who plays on the server knows they were guilty. There's no point looking at ways to stop it if the people caught face no consequence.
You could knock up some detection software, it wouldn't be particularly difficult. You just get locked in an eternal battle though, even if the GMs wanted to stop the botters - which apparently they don't. You don't even need software though, the most egregious could be caught with little effort, as Fin showed previously. Just a shame he, you know, unbanned most of them again.
All that aside, people really need to stop with the mentality that changing drops or adding anything to the game is pointless because bots. Bots always existed, who didn't have fun filling up their inventory with wood years and years ago? They only got out of control when the valour update pushed, the economy broke and you had to grind for months to get anywhere. Fwiw the bots exacerbated the breaking of the economy but it was the valour update that *caused* it to break.
The server is full of bots regardless and they're probably not all Jaime, so the bizarre and seriously flawed logic of 'no drops cos bots' just doesn't work. It makes no sense and it never did. At least regular players could actually enjoy the game again, bots or not. Do something or it will be *only* bots before long - addressing the primary symptom would be a good place to start.[/quote]
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#4 2024/02/23 23:40:00 |
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SOMASOMA |
There must be users to have a server.
that's right. It is necessary to change it to suit the user's needs. However, looking at the game as a whole, high-level tier items are already common enough, and there are ways to obtain them. If 150 val scrolls fall on the ground... it seems that the number of users participating in tov will decrease. But there is a problem. Most of the great main content (tov) that you can participate in every 4 hours is being thrown away. Or, if a small number of people participate, they cannot receive proper compensation. It seems like we literally need to change the size depending on the number of people. If the number of participants is small, it seems necessary to allow boss scroll drops or drastically reduce the number of monsters or HP. Additionally, it seems necessary to allow the supply and demand of scrolls through daily marks. Considering the opportunity cost of users participating in TOV every 4 hours, 5 to 10 scrolls per mark seems appropriate. Lastly, let's apply it paradoxically with the bot hunting problem. By taking advantage of the bot's stupid movements, if it make a mistake move even once, it will be surrounded by strong mobs and die. I think it's okay to charge 10+ val scrolls or 500k? barr as an entrance fee (to use the tyt dungeon / The complex terrain of the dungeon actually causes a real hand hunt.). and also create an end mob that is comparable to the boss mob, make actual hand control essential, and give strong rewards. <add> If char is killed by a mob, the entire durability of the equipped item is consumed by a certain amount (10-20%). so If a char die 6-7 times in a row, some item may disappear. Or, increase the price of the Resurrection Scroll by 10 times.
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[quote="SOMASOMA"]There must be users to have a server.
that's right. It is necessary to change it to suit the user's needs.
However, looking at the game as a whole, high-level tier items are already common enough, and there are ways to obtain them.
If 150 val scrolls fall on the ground... it seems that the number of users participating in tov will decrease.
But there is a problem.
Most of the great main content (tov) that you can participate in every 4 hours is being thrown away. Or, if a small number of people participate, they cannot receive proper compensation.
It seems like we literally need to change the size depending on the number of people.
If the number of participants is small, it seems necessary to allow boss scroll drops or drastically reduce the number of monsters or HP.
Additionally, it seems necessary to allow the supply and demand of scrolls through daily marks. Considering the opportunity cost of users participating in TOV every 4 hours, 5 to 10 scrolls per mark seems appropriate.
Lastly, let's apply it paradoxically with the bot hunting problem.
By taking advantage of the bot's stupid movements, if it make a mistake move even once, it will be surrounded by strong mobs and die.
I think it's okay to charge 10+ val scrolls or 500k? barr as an entrance fee (to use the tyt dungeon / The complex terrain of the dungeon actually causes a real hand hunt.).
and also create an end mob that is comparable to the boss mob, make actual hand control essential, and give strong rewards.
<add> If char is killed by a mob, the entire durability of the equipped item is consumed by a certain amount (10-20%). so If a char die 6-7 times in a row, some item may disappear.
Or, increase the price of the Resurrection Scroll by 10 times.[/quote]
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#5 2024/02/24 09:49:01 |
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OPENTHESTORE |
The first thing to tackle bots is to look at the reason why. The game is 25 years old and its quality of life is fucked.
I’ve never crafted not even with a bot can’t stand how tedious it is. I don’t begrudge anyone botting to get SR’s ect. 32 con? Again I don’t mind anyone botting con. Killing 10000 brics or Kobs in merc? Want a nice accessory, go kill 30k monsters, want another do 30k again, want 150 valor go kill 60k. Took me 4500 lich lords to get an ess for hero… Don’t get me started on how easy melee levelling is vs mage levelling. Take a step back and look at some of the tasks / mind numbing things you have to do in this game. It’s insanity. “Content” isn’t just making people kill thousands of things they’ve already killed. I’ve always said make 2 maps. A map with no drops and immunity and a map with 4x rates and no immunity. Players are equally as good at policing bots maybe more so than GM’s. (People don’t bot on conti because you cannot use immunity). You also have monsters at mags that make botting extremely difficult that can be repeated elsewhere. People also need to realise it’s a double edge sword. You are in a game currently where barr is the most sought after currency for trading. Most barr comes from crafting bots and players being able to over charge those users for items. Players want Val weps and do 8xSS on them. That’s 72 SD without failing an SS. Most dias come from bot users and the ability for other players to over charge them for items.
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[quote="OPENTHESTORE"]The first thing to tackle bots is to look at the reason why. The game is 25 years old and its quality of life is fucked.
I’ve never crafted not even with a bot can’t stand how tedious it is. I don’t begrudge anyone botting to get SR’s ect. 32 con? Again I don’t mind anyone botting con. Killing 10000 brics or Kobs in merc? Want a nice accessory, go kill 30k monsters, want another do 30k again, want 150 valor go kill 60k. Took me 4500 lich lords to get an ess for hero…
Don’t get me started on how easy melee levelling is vs mage levelling.
Take a step back and look at some of the tasks / mind numbing things you have to do in this game. It’s insanity.
“Content” isn’t just making people kill thousands of things they’ve already killed.
I’ve always said make 2 maps. A map with no drops and immunity and a map with 4x rates and no immunity. Players are equally as good at policing bots maybe more so than GM’s. (People don’t bot on conti because you cannot use immunity). You also have monsters at mags that make botting extremely difficult that can be repeated elsewhere.
People also need to realise it’s a double edge sword.
You are in a game currently where barr is the most sought after currency for trading. Most barr comes from crafting bots and players being able to over charge those users for items.
Players want Val weps and do 8xSS on them. That’s 72 SD without failing an SS. Most dias come from bot users and the ability for other players to over charge them for items. [/quote]
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#6 2024/02/27 06:57:32 |
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BIG_R |
"PROWLER"Decent ideas. Sadly the bots cannot be stopped. Its a cat and mouse game and they do not have the time or resources to combat it. It would involve far too much work. Even call of duty cant stop hackers so these guys got no chance sadly. Its always in the hackers favour. In the end its about not punishing the people who play normally just to try and make the botters not be able to bot. As someone else said putting mobs in certain enviroments that bots wont work well in is the best option. Either make the monsters strong so you cant bot 24/7 or the whelps at mags seem to do a good job of keeping bots away. Again that is at the expense of real peoples misfortune. Theres plenty of ways to make a monster hard to bot but its finding a fine balance between stopping them but not making the life of genuine players too difficult.
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[quote="BIG_R"][quote="PROWLER"]Decent ideas.
It’s essential to stop the Cheaters/Botters before any of these suggestions are implemented because they will immediately undermine both the work the GMs do and the benefit to genuine players.
That’s especially the case with improved drops from top tier mobs and bosses.
I have 0% understanding of computer tech but perhaps some suggestions pointing towards how to stop botters/cheats might be helpful? Two quick (and flawed) ones from me;
1) Approach a computer consultant for advice and/or direction. Obtain a quote for a professional solution and create a “just giving” page (or similar) to fund it. Once funded, implement the anti-cheat upgrade and THEN we can have game improvements that won’t be destroyed by cheats and botters.
2) Set up a message/email hotline for players to report botters/cheats in “real time”. It would be necessary for a GM to be available to respond in-game (I know folk have to sleep). When “caught” (I assume the GMs require actual proof, so seeing it themselves should be enough). Then they ban the PLAYER. Ban all the characters, Ban the IP address, Ban the “person” – permanently. This both removes the cheat/botter and acts as a deterrent to others. It may be an arse to start off with but there are only so many botters/cheats. Other games (Fortnite, Warcraft, etc.) don’t tolerate cheating, and neither should Soma. Remove the scourge from the game.
(Those are just two quick (and flawed) suggestions, there will be better ways to address cheating …)
You also mentioned the forum (and discord) – it is also essential that the damage to the reputation to the game is stopped as quickly as possible and certainly before any game improvements are made. The state of the forum also undermines the game. Folk should (of course) be free to post their thoughts, ideals and comments as they see fit BUT not when it brings the game into disrepute. Mitchy and Fox are definitely right that this needs moderating properly. Do it first.
Jac/Prowler
[/quote]
Sadly the bots cannot be stopped. Its a cat and mouse game and they do not have the time or resources to combat it. It would involve far too much work. Even call of duty cant stop hackers so these guys got no chance sadly. Its always in the hackers favour.
In the end its about not punishing the people who play normally just to try and make the botters not be able to bot. As someone else said putting mobs in certain enviroments that bots wont work well in is the best option. Either make the monsters strong so you cant bot 24/7 or the whelps at mags seem to do a good job of keeping bots away. Again that is at the expense of real peoples misfortune. Theres plenty of ways to make a monster hard to bot but its finding a fine balance between stopping them but not making the life of genuine players too difficult.[/quote]
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#7 2024/03/04 18:25:19 |
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SUPER7 |
"BIG_R""PROWLER"Decent ideas. any good ideas on how to stop that crafting bot of yours running 24/7?
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[quote="SUPER7"][quote="BIG_R"][quote="PROWLER"]Decent ideas.
It’s essential to stop the Cheaters/Botters before any of these suggestions are implemented because they will immediately undermine both the work the GMs do and the benefit to genuine players.
That’s especially the case with improved drops from top tier mobs and bosses.
I have 0% understanding of computer tech but perhaps some suggestions pointing towards how to stop botters/cheats might be helpful? Two quick (and flawed) ones from me;
1) Approach a computer consultant for advice and/or direction. Obtain a quote for a professional solution and create a “just giving” page (or similar) to fund it. Once funded, implement the anti-cheat upgrade and THEN we can have game improvements that won’t be destroyed by cheats and botters.
2) Set up a message/email hotline for players to report botters/cheats in “real time”. It would be necessary for a GM to be available to respond in-game (I know folk have to sleep). When “caught” (I assume the GMs require actual proof, so seeing it themselves should be enough). Then they ban the PLAYER. Ban all the characters, Ban the IP address, Ban the “person” – permanently. This both removes the cheat/botter and acts as a deterrent to others. It may be an arse to start off with but there are only so many botters/cheats. Other games (Fortnite, Warcraft, etc.) don’t tolerate cheating, and neither should Soma. Remove the scourge from the game.
(Those are just two quick (and flawed) suggestions, there will be better ways to address cheating …)
You also mentioned the forum (and discord) – it is also essential that the damage to the reputation to the game is stopped as quickly as possible and certainly before any game improvements are made. The state of the forum also undermines the game. Folk should (of course) be free to post their thoughts, ideals and comments as they see fit BUT not when it brings the game into disrepute. Mitchy and Fox are definitely right that this needs moderating properly. Do it first.
Jac/Prowler
[/quote]
Sadly the bots cannot be stopped. Its a cat and mouse game and they do not have the time or resources to combat it. It would involve far too much work. Even call of duty cant stop hackers so these guys got no chance sadly. Its always in the hackers favour.
In the end its about not punishing the people who play normally just to try and make the botters not be able to bot. As someone else said putting mobs in certain enviroments that bots wont work well in is the best option. Either make the monsters strong so you cant bot 24/7 or the whelps at mags seem to do a good job of keeping bots away. Again that is at the expense of real peoples misfortune. Theres plenty of ways to make a monster hard to bot but its finding a fine balance between stopping them but not making the life of genuine players too difficult.[/quote]
any good ideas on how to stop that crafting bot of yours running 24/7?
[/quote]
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#8 2024/03/04 19:08:50 |
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BIG_R |
oh look someone hiding on a store char again, grow a pair
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#9 2024/03/05 13:38:55 |
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