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HUMBUG |
Hope your all well,
Just a quick thought, a rather easy and quick way to raise funds for marketing and the general upkeep of the server is to charge money for certain special items or stat gains. Is it possible to look into this or have a debate on the pros and cons? Humbug
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[quote="HUMBUG"]Hope your all well,
Just a quick thought, a rather easy and quick way to raise funds for marketing and the general upkeep of the server is to charge money for certain special items or stat gains.
Is it possible to look into this or have a debate on the pros and cons?
Humbug[/quote]
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#1 2013/09/27 10:29:55 |
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JNG |
Balancing F2P (microtransaction) models and making them competitive and fair (i.,e not Pay2Win) is something multi-million dollar corporations can't do successfully, let alone a couple of guys.
The only way it would work in ANY capacity would be to have payments for non-gameplay items, like aesthetics. If you want your Bone armor to have a blue tinge to it and are happy to pay 2 quid then....fine...? But the moment you can pay for armors, weps and upgrades...the game is dead. *Edit* I'd probably guess that the hosting costs of the game and website are pretty minimal, certainly not free but not a great deal. It's certainly no problem (from my perspective) if the staff are getting some valuable training/experience/study done from the venture - maybe university or college projects or some CV-skills.
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[quote="JNG"]Balancing F2P (microtransaction) models and making them competitive and fair (i.,e not Pay2Win) is something multi-million dollar corporations can't do successfully, let alone a couple of guys.
The only way it would work in ANY capacity would be to have payments for non-gameplay items, like aesthetics. If you want your Bone armor to have a blue tinge to it and are happy to pay 2 quid then....fine...? But the moment you can pay for armors, weps and upgrades...the game is dead.
*Edit* I'd probably guess that the hosting costs of the game and website are pretty minimal, certainly not free but not a great deal. It's certainly no problem (from my perspective) if the staff are getting some valuable training/experience/study done from the venture - maybe university or college projects or some CV-skills. [/quote]
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#2 2013/09/27 10:34:13 |
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ACE |
I agree with the post above, would be cool to pay for cosmetic stuff tho, i would be tempted thats for sure (always liked the idea of a different colour hero)
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#3 2013/09/27 10:39:32 |
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HUMBUG |
"JNG"Balancing F2P (microtransaction) models and making them competitive and fair (i.,e not Pay2Win) is something multi-million dollar corporations can't do successfully, let alone a couple of guys. I suppose the major difference here is that big development firms rely upon vast numbers of people buying the products in order to be profitable so have to make the gains very worthwhile in order to gain mass appeal. That would not be the case here. It would also be a way for newer players to catch up easier when the server has been established for many months.
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[quote="HUMBUG"][quote="JNG"]Balancing F2P (microtransaction) models and making them competitive and fair (i.,e not Pay2Win) is something multi-million dollar corporations can't do successfully, let alone a couple of guys.
.[/quote]
I suppose the major difference here is that big development firms rely upon vast numbers of people buying the products in order to be profitable so have to make the gains very worthwhile in order to gain mass appeal. That would not be the case here.
It would also be a way for newer players to catch up easier when the server has been established for many months. [/quote]
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#4 2013/09/27 10:42:22 |
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JNG |
"HUMBUG" To support 2 guys and a small server is also very very diff from 10 million global LoL players. It is also a way for people more committed to the game (i.e those who will sacrifice as much money as they will time) to become untouchable. That is hugely demotivating to players, who think 'I can only compete if I sink 50 quid into the game' on top of investing in the playtime. On the test server I was 10 levels from cap, but the gear difference between me and the people who had been playing hardcore for a year more than me was really really depressing and demotivating, all that cash payments for items would do is increase that many times. You would lose a TON of players. Then the rest go because pop is low.
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[quote="JNG"][quote="HUMBUG"]
I suppose the major difference here is that big development firms rely upon vast numbers of people buying the products in order to be profitable so have to make the gains very worthwhile in order to gain mass appeal. That would not be the case here.
It would also be a way for newer players to catch up easier when the server has been established for many months. [/quote]
To support 2 guys and a small server is also very very diff from 10 million global LoL players.
It is also a way for people more committed to the game (i.e those who will sacrifice as much money as they will time) to become untouchable. That is hugely demotivating to players, who think 'I can only compete if I sink 50 quid into the game' on top of investing in the playtime.
On the test server I was 10 levels from cap, but the gear difference between me and the people who had been playing hardcore for a year more than me was really really depressing and demotivating, all that cash payments for items would do is increase that many times. You would lose a TON of players. Then the rest go because pop is low.
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#5 2013/09/27 10:53:23 |
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HUMBUG |
That's one end of the spectrum, however the vast majority of players can only play for 2 hours tops a day. It's a way of keeping the server competitive.
Perhaps you don't introduce high end items for sale, but items that can help speed up leveling at lower levels in order to actually encourage new players. For example, a level 20 player can pay £10 to have x5 rates for 24 hours - I don't know the logistics and whether things like that can actually be done effectively, however its certainly worth having a discussion around.
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[quote="HUMBUG"]That's one end of the spectrum, however the vast majority of players can only play for 2 hours tops a day. It's a way of keeping the server competitive.
Perhaps you don't introduce high end items for sale, but items that can help speed up leveling at lower levels in order to actually encourage new players.
For example, a level 20 player can pay £10 to have x5 rates for 24 hours - I don't know the logistics and whether things like that can actually be done effectively, however its certainly worth having a discussion around.[/quote]
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#6 2013/09/27 11:08:06 |
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JNG |
"HUMBUG"That's one end of the spectrum, however the vast majority of players can only play for 2 hours tops a day. It's a way of keeping the server competitive. Sure :p Guess my only point is that it will kill the game if endgame items, or upgrades, are available for purchase. Inconsequential items or aesthetics...sure. If people want to buy skins or colours etc then thats really no harm to anyone at all. Its just a scary prospect, because doing it wrong could be disastrous...
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[quote="JNG"][quote="HUMBUG"]That's one end of the spectrum, however the vast majority of players can only play for 2 hours tops a day. It's a way of keeping the server competitive.
Perhaps you don't introduce high end items for sale, but items that can help speed up leveling at lower levels in order to actually encourage new players.
For example, a level 20 player can pay £10 to have x5 rates for 24 hours - I don't know the logistics and whether things like that can actually be done effectively. [/quote]
Sure :p
Guess my only point is that it will kill the game if endgame items, or upgrades, are available for purchase. Inconsequential items or aesthetics...sure. If people want to buy skins or colours etc then thats really no harm to anyone at all.
Its just a scary prospect, because doing it wrong could be disastrous...[/quote]
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#7 2013/09/27 11:11:06 |
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HUMBUG |
So you agree in prince-able with lower end gains?
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#8 2013/09/27 11:12:39 |
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IRNBRU |
I have nothing constructive to add.
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#9 2013/09/27 11:14:46 |
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HUMBUG |
Why not?
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#10 2013/09/27 11:27:40 |
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NEOXIAN |
as previous, cosmetic upgrades i agree with. With regard to "speeding up" levelling thats a definite no.
The only thing i would say is permissable is something like an unlimited dura token to save repair runs. The thing is you could list things like extra bagweight tokens but that will unbalance the pvp characteristics, You could say add an unlimited hp pot but once again that would introduce exploits of hunting mobs too high for you and affect pvp negatively, everything you change has an impact in another area. paying a "premium" subscription so npc armor/weapons are innately rare tag could be nice... but then it kills off low economy. theres a negative for every positive just so "your" life is easier.
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[quote="NEOXIAN"]as previous, cosmetic upgrades i agree with. With regard to "speeding up" levelling thats a definite no.
The only thing i would say is permissable is something like an unlimited dura token to save repair runs.
The thing is you could list things like extra bagweight tokens but that will unbalance the pvp characteristics, You could say add an unlimited hp pot but once again that would introduce exploits of hunting mobs too high for you and affect pvp negatively, everything you change has an impact in another area.
paying a "premium" subscription so npc armor/weapons are innately rare tag could be nice... but then it kills off low economy. theres a negative for every positive just so "your" life is easier.
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#11 2013/09/27 11:51:07 |
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HUMBUG |
"NEOXIAN"With regard to "speeding up" levelling thats a definite no. Why is it a definite no? I think your viewpoint is from a very short term point of view. Does it really matter to somebody level 50+ how long it takes someone to go from level 20 to 40? If its done correctly, the players who play the most will always be out in front. The longer the server is up the more crucial it is for new players to be able to rapidly level, thus keeping the server competitive and fresh and not alienating the population into a few elite multi's at the top, then a second tier of people who play pretty hardcore then 75% of the server who have no bearing on anything in terms of wotw or gvw. And eventually just quit leaving a lower long term user count and a far less enjoyable server.
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[quote="HUMBUG"][quote="NEOXIAN"]With regard to "speeding up" levelling thats a definite no.
[/quote]
Why is it a definite no? I think your viewpoint is from a very short term point of view. Does it really matter to somebody level 50+ how long it takes someone to go from level 20 to 40? If its done correctly, the players who play the most will always be out in front.
The longer the server is up the more crucial it is for new players to be able to rapidly level, thus keeping the server competitive and fresh and not alienating the population into a few elite multi's at the top, then a second tier of people who play pretty hardcore then 75% of the server who have no bearing on anything in terms of wotw or gvw. And eventually just quit leaving a lower long term user count and a far less enjoyable server.[/quote]
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#12 2013/09/27 11:59:31 |
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NEOXIAN |
Esoma had all the things you listed above yet people still played and enjoyed it. what next? quick crafting skill because you cant be bothered to craft like the "elite" or quicker movement speed?
the only thing that will help lower levels (remember 0-20 is 4x rate not 2x like 20-100) without ruining the game is silly things like unlimited dura, unlimited stamina things that have no secondary implications like with pvp etc. the "elite" deserve to be there. as the server progresses people slow down, there are level caps and slowdowns that allow people to catch up. The server can't accomodate people because if u get faster xp, whats to say the multi's wont use them too? this will exacerbate the gap thats already there. you say only up to level 40, but then you'll think it's slow so want it 40-60, and it's a viscious cycle. Knuckle down and level how it was designed.
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[quote="NEOXIAN"]Esoma had all the things you listed above yet people still played and enjoyed it. what next? quick crafting skill because you cant be bothered to craft like the "elite" or quicker movement speed?
the only thing that will help lower levels (remember 0-20 is 4x rate not 2x like 20-100) without ruining the game is silly things like unlimited dura, unlimited stamina things that have no secondary implications like with pvp etc.
the "elite" deserve to be there. as the server progresses people slow down, there are level caps and slowdowns that allow people to catch up. The server can't accomodate people because if u get faster xp, whats to say the multi's wont use them too? this will exacerbate the gap thats already there. you say only up to level 40, but then you'll think it's slow so want it 40-60, and it's a viscious cycle. Knuckle down and level how it was designed.[/quote]
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#13 2013/09/27 12:12:47 |
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JNG |
"HUMBUG""NEOXIAN"With regard to "speeding up" levelling thats a definite no. This is true, but I don't think they should be pay options. Its the duty of the game devs to fix such issues, maybe through rested exp?, but if you make cash investment mandatory for enjoying the game - people will go play any of the 1000s of quality f2p games. Then there is also the propblems, legal reqs, taxes etc of dealing with finances. Im not giving a 2 man organisation my creditcard details, and some countries dont allow paypal etc.
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[quote="JNG"][quote="HUMBUG"][quote="NEOXIAN"]With regard to "speeding up" levelling thats a definite no.
[/quote]
The longer the server is up the more crucial it is for new players to be able to rapidly level, thus keeping the server competitive and fresh and not alienating the population into a few elite multi's at the top, then a second tier of people who play pretty hardcore then 75% of the server who have no bearing on anything in terms of wotw or gvw. [/quote]
This is true, but I don't think they should be pay options. Its the duty of the game devs to fix such issues, maybe through rested exp?, but if you make cash investment mandatory for enjoying the game - people will go play any of the 1000s of quality f2p games.
Then there is also the propblems, legal reqs, taxes etc of dealing with finances. Im not giving a 2 man organisation my creditcard details, and some countries dont allow paypal etc.
[/quote]
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#14 2013/09/27 12:22:07 |
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HUMBUG |
"NEOXIAN"Esoma had all the things you listed above yet people still played and enjoyed it. what next? quick crafting skill because you cant be bothered to craft like the "elite" or quicker movement speed? "Esoma had all the things you listed above yet people still played and enjoyed it. " Esoma was a modern, well marketed mmorpg at its height which kept people playing, we cannot rely upon what soma used to be. " ...without ruining the game " I struggle to see how helping lower levels ruins pvp, if anything it helps it longer term! "the "elite" deserve to be there " Of course they do, and that element will always be there and rightly so. "as the server progresses people slow down, there are level caps and slowdowns that allow people to catch up" Struggle to see your point on this, doesnt matter if you play 6 months or 6 years everyone faces the same slow downs so it will not benefit or hinder anyone. " whats to say the multi's wont use them too? " Again, I don't understand your point here. "you say only up to level 40, but then you'll think it's slow so want it 40-60" Its all relative really isn't it? It's not about leveling being slow, you miss the whole point of the argument and really fail to see all the potential benefits. Your argument basically boils down to 'Well i had to do it, so why wouldn't they?' Which of course has a certain amount of credibility, but is also a very selfish standpoint.
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[quote="HUMBUG"][quote="NEOXIAN"]Esoma had all the things you listed above yet people still played and enjoyed it. what next? quick crafting skill because you cant be bothered to craft like the "elite" or quicker movement speed?
the only thing that will help lower levels (remember 0-20 is 4x rate not 2x like 20-100) without ruining the game is silly things like unlimited dura, unlimited stamina things that have no secondary implications like with pvp etc.
the "elite" deserve to be there. as the server progresses people slow down, there are level caps and slowdowns that allow people to catch up. The server can't accomodate people because if u get faster xp, whats to say the multi's wont use them too? this will exacerbate the gap thats already there. you say only up to level 40, but then you'll think it's slow so want it 40-60, and it's a viscious cycle. Knuckle down and level how it was designed.[/quote]
"[b]Esoma had all the things you listed above yet people still played and enjoyed it. [/b]"
Esoma was a modern, well marketed mmorpg at its height which kept people playing, we cannot rely upon what soma used to be.
" [b]...without ruining the game [/b]"
I struggle to see how helping lower levels ruins pvp, if anything it helps it longer term!
"[b]the "elite" deserve to be there [/b]"
Of course they do, and that element will always be there and rightly so.
"[b]as the server progresses people slow down, there are level caps and slowdowns that allow people to catch up[/b]"
Struggle to see your point on this, doesnt matter if you play 6 months or 6 years everyone faces the same slow downs so it will not benefit or hinder anyone.
" [b]whats to say the multi's wont use them too? [/b]"
Again, I don't understand your point here.
"[b]you say only up to level 40, but then you'll think it's slow so want it 40-60[/b]"
Its all relative really isn't it? It's not about leveling being slow, you miss the whole point of the argument and really fail to see all the potential benefits.
Your argument basically boils down to 'Well i had to do it, so why wouldn't they?' Which of course has a certain amount of credibility, but is also a very selfish standpoint. [/quote]
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#15 2013/09/27 12:29:09 |
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