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PATHOLOGIST |
Tbh, you get to 93int, do a quest, kill a boss, and then have a devil use W1 serum to remove your damage.
Think of it the other way around, if people could use a special pot so that you can not use 4th, you wouldnt like it either. |
#16 2013/10/11 18:24:02 |
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CARNAGE |
"S0RCERER"If you change feathers, absofuckinglutely increase the weight on serums. If anything, weight 7 is too low (that goes for all serums). Think you're getting me wrong here I'm not asking for feathers to be nerfed and for serums to be left alone. I'm saying feathers should get the exact same treatment as serums whatever that may be. You're saying it's unfair that mages can have their damage pretty much minimized at the cost of 1 bag weight fair enough I can understand your point but this goes both ways why should I not be able to hit while still getting constantly nuked because a mage decides to constantly feather about the place also at the cost of 1 bag weight? just like archers where it's pretty much free damage. I hope you can see my point here. Then comes along some idiot who says "well you should of played an archer" no I shouldn't have. Myself as well as every other class that's range one or two shouldn't really be penalised for basicly not playing an archer or a mage.
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[quote="CARNAGE"][quote="S0RCERER"]If you change feathers, absofuckinglutely increase the weight on serums. If anything, weight 7 is too low (that goes for all serums).[/quote]
Think you're getting me wrong here I'm not asking for feathers to be nerfed and for serums to be left alone. I'm saying feathers should get the exact same treatment as serums whatever that may be.
You're saying it's unfair that mages can have their damage pretty much minimized at the cost of 1 bag weight fair enough I can understand your point but this goes both ways why should I not be able to hit while still getting constantly nuked because a mage decides to constantly feather about the place also at the cost of 1 bag weight? just like archers where it's pretty much free damage. I hope you can see my point here.
Then comes along some idiot who says "well you should of played an archer" no I shouldn't have. Myself as well as every other class that's range one or two shouldn't really be penalised for basicly not playing an archer or a mage.[/quote]
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#17 2013/10/11 18:48:09 |
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AKAINU |
Devils having ridiclous bag weight serums should be in no way weight 1, same for feathers
In regard to hsoma, we also need serums and feathers to be weight increased, people can carry a silly amount of them with them being just weight 1, i would suggest maybe weight 5, 7 seems a bit much. "XXAEONXX"Maybe add a 5 second cooldown on feathers and serums This is also an awesome idea, maybe if all 3 serums were linked, you could also only use 1 serum per 2/3 seconds maybe (5 may be a bit much)
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[quote="AKAINU"]Devils having ridiclous bag weight serums should be in no way weight 1, same for feathers
In regard to hsoma, we also need serums and feathers to be weight increased, people can carry a silly amount of them with them being just weight 1, i would suggest maybe weight 5, 7 seems a bit much.
[quote="XXAEONXX"]Maybe add a 5 second cooldown on feathers and serums
[/quote]
This is also an awesome idea, maybe if all 3 serums were linked, you could also only use 1 serum per 2/3 seconds maybe (5 may be a bit much)[/quote]
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#18 2013/10/11 22:34:49 |
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CARNAGE |
"PATHOLOGIST"Tbh, you get to 93int, do a quest, kill a boss, and then have a devil use W1 serum to remove your damage. Point noted and understood but to say think of it the other way around is a bit lol, that arguement doesn't wash with me because it's already happening and I'll explain from my point of view a range one swordsman. Even with serums at weight one a mage is actually still capable of killing someone without weakening in certain situations providing they're in range such as for example the person being pk'd is in the wrong gear, using the wrong hp pots or already being on low hp to being with. Now not to blow my own horn here but I'm probably within the top 5% of top devils level wise and let me tell you mages HURT especially if unprepared and that's without weakening, with weakening I'd probably be taking a dirt nap in 2/3 hits tops. Now you mention about thinking about it being the other way well I've put countless hours into my character from day one just like the next guy, at least a mage is still able to do damage with or without weakening because they are RANGED. With feathers in their current state how about doing NO damage at all? join the range one club, does that seem fair to you? getting no damage at all but still being nuked into next week.
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[quote="CARNAGE"][quote="PATHOLOGIST"]Tbh, you get to 93int, do a quest, kill a boss, and then have a devil use W1 serum to remove your damage.
Think of it the other way around, if people could use a special pot so that you can not use 4th, you wouldnt like it either.[/quote]
Point noted and understood but to say think of it the other way around is a bit lol, that arguement doesn't wash with me because it's already happening and I'll explain from my point of view a range one swordsman.
Even with serums at weight one a mage is actually still capable of killing someone without weakening in certain situations providing they're in range such as for example the person being pk'd is in the wrong gear, using the wrong hp pots or already being on low hp to being with. Now not to blow my own horn here but I'm probably within the top 5% of top devils level wise and let me tell you mages HURT especially if unprepared and that's without weakening, with weakening I'd probably be taking a dirt nap in 2/3 hits tops.
Now you mention about thinking about it being the other way well I've put countless hours into my character from day one just like the next guy, at least a mage is still able to do damage with or without weakening because they are RANGED. With feathers in their current state how about doing NO damage at all? join the range one club, does that seem fair to you? getting no damage at all but still being nuked into next week.
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#19 2013/10/13 13:03:57 |
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NEXUSJR |
"CARNAGE" The big thing about this in my opinion is watching mages who are out of range start a cast, then feather mid-cast to get closer and hit. Ever seen a melee character cast 4th and feather to range 1 of someone? Although I doubt anything will be done to this as it's not on their set list of issues, would like something to go the way of melee chars as they're buggy, can't get near anyone, and when we do, we crash with that stupid crash bug lol.
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[quote="NEXUSJR"][quote="CARNAGE"]
Point noted and understood but to say think of it the other way around is a bit lol, that arguement doesn't wash with me because it's already happening and I'll explain from my point of view a range one swordsman.
Even with serums at weight one a mage is actually still capable of killing someone without weakening in certain situations providing they're in range such as for example the person being pk'd is in the wrong gear, using the wrong hp pots or already being on low hp to being with. Now not to blow my own horn here but I'm probably within the top 5% of top devils level wise and let me tell you mages HURT especially if unprepared and that's without weakening, with weakening I'd probably be taking a dirt nap in 2/3 hits tops.
Now you mention about thinking about it being the other way well I've put countless hours into my character from day one just like the next guy, at least a mage is still able to do damage with or without weakening because they are RANGED. With feathers in their current state how about doing NO damage at all? join the range one club, does that seem fair to you? getting no damage at all but still being nuked into next week.
[/quote]
The big thing about this in my opinion is watching mages who are out of range start a cast, then feather mid-cast to get closer and hit. Ever seen a melee character cast 4th and feather to range 1 of someone?
Although I doubt anything will be done to this as it's not on their set list of issues, would like something to go the way of melee chars as they're buggy, can't get near anyone, and when we do, we crash with that stupid crash bug lol.[/quote]
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#20 2013/10/13 17:38:13 |
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MONSTER |
This arguement makes me laugh, what do u expect, archers to be made range 1 rofl? even if feathers are removed they will just hit and run u, so pointless things being said
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#21 2013/10/14 02:03:34 |
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NEXUSJR |
"MONSTER"This arguement makes me laugh, what do u expect, archers to be made range 1 rofl? even if feathers are removed they will just hit and run u, so pointless things being said okay.. then your argument is invalid as well. Why bother changing wt on black serums? you can just recast and recast with no cooldown, just makes mages more op at that rate. This is a pretty pointless thread now, huh. The point is to make the game MORE balanced, not less.
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[quote="NEXUSJR"][quote="MONSTER"]This arguement makes me laugh, what do u expect, archers to be made range 1 rofl? even if feathers are removed they will just hit and run u, so pointless things being said[/quote]
okay.. then your argument is invalid as well.
Why bother changing wt on black serums? you can just recast and recast with no cooldown, just makes mages more op at that rate.
This is a pretty pointless thread now, huh.
The point is to make the game MORE balanced, not less.[/quote]
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#22 2013/10/14 05:29:08 |
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S0RCERER |
"NEXUSJR"okay.. then your argument is invalid as well. Ever seen a melee need to 'pre-swing' before he makes a swing? Ever seen a melee be interrupted before he can swing? Weaken is range 4 and requires a double-cast to fire off and you can remove it in 1 second at the expense of 1 bagweight. Upsides, Downsides, Swings and Roundabouts - Gbirds were implemented for a reason, why do you think? Without Gbirds, Mage pvp is shit. Without Serums, Melee pvp is shit. You nerf Gbirds, you better nerf them Serums.
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[quote="S0RCERER"][quote="NEXUSJR"]okay.. then your argument is invalid as well.
Why bother changing wt on black serums? you can just recast and recast with no cooldown, just makes mages more op at that rate.
This is a pretty pointless thread now, huh.
The point is to make the game MORE balanced, not less.[/quote]
Ever seen a melee need to 'pre-swing' before he makes a swing?
Ever seen a melee be interrupted before he can swing?
Weaken is range 4 and requires a double-cast to fire off and you can remove it in 1 second at the expense of 1 bagweight.
Upsides, Downsides, Swings and Roundabouts - Gbirds were implemented for a reason, why do you think?
Without Gbirds, Mage pvp is shit.
Without Serums, Melee pvp is shit.
You nerf Gbirds, you better nerf them Serums.[/quote]
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#23 2013/10/14 10:06:34 |
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GHOSTLORD |
"S0RCERER""NEXUSJR"okay.. then your argument is invalid as well. I think this has been said before but Gbird and Serums go hand in hand. Not just in my opinion but I'm quite certain this opinion is shared by iSylver and Finito. As for a weight I'd like to see them way around 3-5, but not more. This is because we don't have the uber weight of ESoma anymore (hp/mp/weight calcs) and are lower weight than the test server due to lower lvl and stats.
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[quote="GHOSTLORD"][quote="S0RCERER"][quote="NEXUSJR"]okay.. then your argument is invalid as well.
Why bother changing wt on black serums? you can just recast and recast with no cooldown, just makes mages more op at that rate.
This is a pretty pointless thread now, huh.
The point is to make the game MORE balanced, not less.[/quote]
Ever seen a melee need to 'pre-swing' before he makes a swing?
Ever seen a melee be interrupted before he can swing?
Weaken is range 4 and requires a double-cast to fire off and you can remove it in 1 second at the expense of 1 bagweight.
Upsides, Downsides, Swings and Roundabouts - Gbirds were implemented for a reason, why do you think?
Without Gbirds, Mage pvp is shit.
Without Serums, Melee pvp is shit.
You nerf Gbirds, you better nerf them Serums.[/quote]
I think this has been said before but Gbird and Serums go hand in hand. Not just in my opinion but I'm quite certain this opinion is shared by iSylver and Finito. As for a weight I'd like to see them way around 3-5, but not more. This is because we don't have the uber weight of ESoma anymore (hp/mp/weight calcs) and are lower weight than the test server due to lower lvl and stats.
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#24 2013/10/14 10:27:12 |
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SAVAGE |
"S0RCERER"You nerf Gbirds, you better nerf them Serums. Like I keep saying I'd be perfectly fine with this, just don't like how some want one nerfed and not the other. |
#25 2013/10/14 14:00:59 |
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S0RCERER |
"SAVAGE""S0RCERER"You nerf Gbirds, you better nerf them Serums. I personally take no issue with Gbirds, could it be because i'm a mage? Perhaps, but it seems that there's a valid concern among a group of players that there's something wrong with them. As such i'm willing to concede a change in their functionality or bagweight cost. This however, will impact certain classes negatively - even if Gbirds are left alone in its current state, Black Serums absolutely must be increased in weight cost. On Esoma, this wasn't an issue as weaken was a blue spell (even for devil mages) and as such, serums did have a weight cost of 7. Here, we have weight 1 black serums, weight 7 blue and white serums resulting in an already 'nerfed' weaken from the Esoma incarnation. TLDR: Weaken on this server is in a worse state than it was on Esoma, net effect is a nerf already - upping weight on Black Serums simply brings the balance to back where it was on Esoma.
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[quote="S0RCERER"][quote="SAVAGE"][quote="S0RCERER"]You nerf Gbirds, you better nerf them Serums.[/quote]
Like I keep saying I'd be perfectly fine with this, just don't like how some want one nerfed and not the other.
[/quote]
I [b]personally[/b] take no issue with Gbirds, could it be because i'm a mage? Perhaps, but it seems that there's a valid concern among a group of players that there's something wrong with them.
As such i'm willing to concede a change in their functionality or bagweight cost.
This however, will impact certain classes negatively - even if Gbirds are left alone in its current state, Black Serums [b]absolutely must be increased in weight cost[/b].
On Esoma, this wasn't an issue as weaken was a blue spell (even for devil mages) and as such, serums did have a weight cost of 7.
Here, we have weight 1 black serums, weight 7 blue and white serums resulting in an already 'nerfed' weaken from the Esoma incarnation.
TLDR:
Weaken on this server is in a worse state than it was on Esoma, net effect is a nerf already - upping weight on Black Serums simply brings the balance to back where it was on Esoma.[/quote]
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#26 2013/10/14 14:10:21 |
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CARNAGE |
"S0RCERER" It's probably because you're a mage and actually using them which is fair enough lol and also why I'm not asking for their complete removal, every other class that's not an archer is starting to feel penalised for playing a close range class, myself included. Like I said before as well mages can still get some sort of damage even if weakening isn't applied and it's still big damage imo enough to kill in a few hits and this is even before weakening is even involved, close pvp classes get none at all.
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[quote="CARNAGE"][quote="S0RCERER"]
I [b]personally[/b] take no issue with Gbirds, could it be because i'm a mage? Perhaps[/quote]
It's probably because you're a mage and actually using them which is fair enough lol and also why I'm not asking for their complete removal, every other class that's not an archer is starting to feel penalised for playing a close range class, myself included.
Like I said before as well mages can still get some sort of damage even if weakening isn't applied and it's still big damage imo enough to kill in a few hits and this is even before weakening is even involved, close pvp classes get none at all.
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#27 2013/10/14 14:18:39 |
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NEXUSJR |
Ye S0rc I totally agree with you, just also found it funny to nerf one and not the other, which was really my point.
I think wt. 3-5 on feathers would be good, and I also firmly believe black serums should be the same as the others. |
#28 2013/10/14 23:19:13 |
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FUJITORA |
"GHOSTLORD"I think this has been said before but Gbird and Serums go hand in hand. Not just in my opinion but I'm quite certain this opinion is shared by iSylver and Finito. As for a weight I'd like to see them way around 3-5, but not more. This is because we don't have the uber weight of ESoma anymore (hp/mp/weight calcs) and are lower weight than the test server due to lower lvl and stats.. Looking forward to seeing this in game for hsoma as well as dsoma asap.
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[quote="FUJITORA"][quote="GHOSTLORD"]I think this has been said before but Gbird and Serums go hand in hand. Not just in my opinion but I'm quite certain this opinion is shared by iSylver and Finito. As for a weight I'd like to see them way around 3-5, but not more. This is because we don't have the uber weight of ESoma anymore (hp/mp/weight calcs) and are lower weight than the test server due to lower lvl and stats..[/quote]
Looking forward to seeing this in game for hsoma as well as dsoma asap.[/quote]
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#29 2013/10/16 11:47:49 |
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