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PATHOLOGIST |
Whatever way you look at it, 100% should not be possible on players especially now there is a set min dmg to eachother.
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#31 2015/01/04 22:17:01 |
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YOSHIMITSU |
"S0RCERER""JACKELPUP"It's already been nerfed, why should it be unobtainable? If he wanted to make it impossible to get 100%, he would have done so with the evasion armour being X(90%) not X(100%). Why change something now just that some people are getting 100% on BLG when people have had 100% on mess/ban/DW/apus for months? Having 100% on BLG is only worth it for a short peroid of time then you just have to do axe or int or you'll end up ruining your character and get 2 hit.
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[quote="YOSHIMITSU"][quote="S0RCERER"][quote="JACKELPUP"]It's already been nerfed, why should it be unobtainable?[/quote]
Because that was the EXACT REASON it was nerfed.
So that it could be unobtainable.
Any other reason needed? Other than the specific reason for it?[/quote]
If he wanted to make it impossible to get 100%, he would have done so with the evasion armour being X(90%) not X(100%). Why change something now just that some people are getting 100% on BLG when people have had 100% on mess/ban/DW/apus for months? Having 100% on BLG is only worth it for a short peroid of time then you just have to do axe or int or you'll end up ruining your character and get 2 hit.[/quote]
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#32 2015/01/04 22:17:28 |
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EVIL_JR |
"YOSHIMITSU""S0RCERER""JACKELPUP"It's already been nerfed, why should it be unobtainable? add 100% hit rate and min damage atleast 30, same as Dsoma Hogs, Apai and WBM (magic) and you cant moan as humans have miles more HP than devils!
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[quote="EVIL_JR"][quote="YOSHIMITSU"][quote="S0RCERER"][quote="JACKELPUP"]It's already been nerfed, why should it be unobtainable?[/quote]
Because that was the EXACT REASON it was nerfed.
So that it could be unobtainable.
Any other reason needed? Other than the specific reason for it?[/quote]
If he wanted to make it impossible to get 100%, he would have done so with the evasion armour being X(90%) not X(100%). Why change something now just that some people are getting 100% on BLG when people have had 100% on mess/ban/DW/apus for months? Having 100% on BLG is only worth it for a short peroid of time then you just have to do axe or int or you'll end up ruining your character and get 2 hit.[/quote]
add 100% hit rate and min damage atleast 30,
same as Dsoma Hogs, Apai and WBM (magic)
and you cant moan as humans have miles more HP than devils!
[/quote]
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#33 2015/01/04 22:23:22 |
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S0RCERER |
Dont think it's supposed to be a human/devil thread JR, as even on Dsoma it's still f*cked where archers/knucklers have close to 100% evasion on the endgame STR monsters designed for axer/sword/spear.
That's a discussion for another thread :p |
#34 2015/01/04 22:34:12 |
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RAZ0R |
Don't really care about people havin 100% on monsters but having it player vs player is stupid
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#35 2015/01/05 02:38:11 |
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RAZ0R |
As yoshis says by the time someone has 100% on blg they're probably almost done doing dex
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#36 2015/01/05 02:39:38 |
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GHOSTLORD |
I agree with s0rc, people move to monsters and insanely low stats. In my eyes to a point where it no longer benefits the char and also takes more time.
However I also agree with yoshi that a dex build should have an advantage about the same as minimal damage. Since it's harder to get 100% than min dmg and it'll mean less int and/or str I'm ok with it. As for PvP 100% that's easily solved without touching mobs.
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[quote="GHOSTLORD"]I agree with s0rc, people move to monsters and insanely low stats. In my eyes to a point where it no longer benefits the char and also takes more time.
However I also agree with yoshi that a dex build should have an advantage about the same as minimal damage. Since it's harder to get 100% than min dmg and it'll mean less int and/or str I'm ok with it.
As for PvP 100% that's easily solved without touching mobs. [/quote]
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#37 2015/01/05 08:16:33 |
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YOSHIMITSU |
"GHOSTLORD" 100% in PVP is more than deserved, just because someone has 160 int and 171 str then 95 dex, why should they hit me with str? They can just 2/3 hit me with int, especially when i'm in evasion gear. 100% should be acheivable even in pvp, people knew that if they had no dex they wouldn't really hit someone but they all chose the "easy" route of brute str/int. 100% even against someone with 100 dex is still a pretty hard task to do, unless you're like 120/125 dex and if you do that and cap str, you'll have like 100 int so again, it comes back to the pro's and con's.
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[quote="YOSHIMITSU"][quote="GHOSTLORD"]
As for PvP 100% that's easily solved without touching mobs. [/quote]
100% in PVP is more than deserved, just because someone has 160 int and 171 str then 95 dex, why should they hit me with str? They can just 2/3 hit me with int, especially when i'm in evasion gear. 100% should be acheivable even in pvp, people knew that if they had no dex they wouldn't really hit someone but they all chose the "easy" route of brute str/int. 100% even against someone with 100 dex is still a pretty hard task to do, unless you're like 120/125 dex and if you do that and cap str, you'll have like 100 int so again, it comes back to the pro's and con's.
[/quote]
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#38 2015/01/05 09:38:48 |
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HURRICANE |
"YOSHIMITSU""GHOSTLORD" +1 Tbh if their going to take 100% eva away, put 200 max dam cap back on int. only fair. Its basically the same Why did u make this thread yoshi -.- Delete thread please. Thanks
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[quote="HURRICANE"][quote="YOSHIMITSU"][quote="GHOSTLORD"]
As for PvP 100% that's easily solved without touching mobs. [/quote]
100% in PVP is more than deserved, just because someone has 160 int and 171 str then 95 dex, why should they hit me with str? They can just 2/3 hit me with int, especially when i'm in evasion gear. 100% should be acheivable even in pvp, people knew that if they had no dex they wouldn't really hit someone but they all chose the "easy" route of brute str/int. 100% even against someone with 100 dex is still a pretty hard task to do, unless you're like 120/125 dex and if you do that and cap str, you'll have like 100 int so again, it comes back to the pro's and con's.
[/quote]
+1 Tbh if their going to take 100% eva away, put 200 max dam cap back on int. only fair. Its basically the same
Why did u make this thread yoshi -.-
Delete thread please. Thanks
[/quote]
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#39 2015/01/05 10:18:58 |
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GHOSTLORD |
"YOSHIMITSU""GHOSTLORD" According to this logic you wouldn't mind if HSoma would never be able to hit (with melee) dsoma archers, knuxers or top lvl swordman. However what I believe you mean is - top humans players should be able to get 100% evasion on eachother at top lvl. Now I impose on you a challenge. Calculate if it is even possible, with a minimum dex of 95 on a str char and a realistic dex for a dex-focussed char. You will probably find it near impossible if it isn't. Another question - why is 100% a necessity? We have minimum damage now and I can't think of any other game where you can get 100% on someone. And even if there is/was, it was probably patched away asap. Anyway I'm quite happy with the way hsoma eva works atm.
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[quote="GHOSTLORD"][quote="YOSHIMITSU"][quote="GHOSTLORD"]
As for PvP 100% that's easily solved without touching mobs. [/quote]
100% in PVP is more than deserved, just because someone has 160 int and 171 str then 95 dex, why should they hit me with str? They can just 2/3 hit me with int, especially when i'm in evasion gear. 100% should be acheivable even in pvp, people knew that if they had no dex they wouldn't really hit someone but they all chose the "easy" route of brute str/int. 100% even against someone with 100 dex is still a pretty hard task to do, unless you're like 120/125 dex and if you do that and cap str, you'll have like 100 int so again, it comes back to the pro's and con's.
[/quote]
According to this logic you wouldn't mind if HSoma would never be able to hit (with melee) dsoma archers, knuxers or top lvl swordman.
However what I believe you mean is - top humans players should be able to get 100% evasion on eachother at top lvl.
Now I impose on you a challenge. Calculate if it is even possible, with a minimum dex of 95 on a str char and a realistic dex for a dex-focussed char. You will probably find it near impossible if it isn't.
Another question - why is 100% a necessity? We have minimum damage now and I can't think of any other game where you can get 100% on someone. And even if there is/was, it was probably patched away asap.
Anyway I'm quite happy with the way hsoma eva works atm.[/quote]
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#40 2015/01/05 10:27:42 |
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YOSHIMITSU |
"GHOSTLORD" Knuckle/archer if they had made +5 gear to have redic eva then yes. I woudn't even mind so much if the top level devils had 100% evasion on people who had sub 110 dex as I'd never in a million years try and melee a devil lol. "GHOSTLORD" That's why I made the thread, so someone can show me the exact way to calculate defensive dex/offensive dex as the way i'm doing it is obviously wrong and others have the same problem. "GHOSTLORD" It's not a necessity at all, but what about people who won't get min dmg? People who want to go down the evasion route? Soma isn't like any other game that i've ever came across and it should stay that way. What i'm saying is don't punish the very few who have decided to go down the dex route and sacraficing a hell of a lot of int and in some cases, str just because we wil have 100% on people who have decided to get near cap str/int and have poor int.
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[quote="YOSHIMITSU"][quote="GHOSTLORD"]
According to this logic you wouldn't mind if HSoma would never be able to hit (with melee) dsoma archers, knuxers or top lvl swordman.
However what I believe you mean is - top humans players should be able to get 100% evasion on eachother at top lvl.
[/quote]
Knuckle/archer if they had made +5 gear to have redic eva then yes. I woudn't even mind so much if the top level devils had 100% evasion on people who had sub 110 dex as I'd never in a million years try and melee a devil lol.
[quote="GHOSTLORD"]
Now I impose on you a challenge. Calculate if it is even possible, with a minimum dex of 95 on a str char and a realistic dex for a dex-focussed char. You will probably find it near impossible if it isn't.
[/quote]
That's why I made the thread, so someone can show me the exact way to calculate defensive dex/offensive dex as the way i'm doing it is obviously wrong and others have the same problem.
[quote="GHOSTLORD"]
Another question - why is 100% a necessity? We have minimum damage now and I can't think of any other game where you can get 100% on someone. And even if there is/was, it was probably patched away asap.
Anyway I'm quite happy with the way hsoma eva works atm.[/quote]
[/quote]
It's not a necessity at all, but what about people who won't get min dmg? People who want to go down the evasion route? Soma isn't like any other game that i've ever came across and it should stay that way. What i'm saying is don't punish the very few who have decided to go down the dex route and sacraficing a hell of a lot of int and in some cases, str just because we wil have 100% on people who have decided to get near cap str/int and have poor int.
[/quote]
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#41 2015/01/05 11:08:55 |
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GRASS_ |
Dex is the best stat long run which is why we are seeing people making higher dex/ pure dex chars now.
When caps go up people with more dex will be in a hugely favourable situation to someone with 100 dex. All this talk about sacrificing your stats to do pure dex is nonsense as in the long run dex chars will be vastly superior. Dex is also the fastest to level rather than compared to axe with pan claw being so op. The only question here is does Isylver want people to be leveling with 100% eva on blg and in the future on higher mobs. Would be nice to see his thoughts. Pure dex chars will obviously argue it should stay in game as its in their best interests.
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[quote="GRASS_"]Dex is the best stat long run which is why we are seeing people making higher dex/ pure dex chars now.
When caps go up people with more dex will be in a hugely favourable situation to someone with 100 dex.
All this talk about sacrificing your stats to do pure dex is nonsense as in the long run dex chars will be vastly superior.
Dex is also the fastest to level rather than compared to axe with pan claw being so op.
The only question here is does Isylver want people to be leveling with 100% eva on blg and in the future on higher mobs. Would be nice to see his thoughts. Pure dex chars will obviously argue it should stay in game as its in their best interests. [/quote]
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#42 2015/01/05 11:36:08 |
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YOSHIMITSU |
"GRASS_"Dex is the best stat long run which is why we are seeing people making higher dex/ pure dex chars now. How many people are doing this? Ace and Lupi are the only ones i've seen so far and lupi's is a LONG way behind, Ace's isn't the highest character you'll see in game either. People banging on about loads of people having 100% on BLG. There's 1 at the minute, will be 2/3 in the near future. That's hardly anything massive in comparison to the general Soma population. "GRASS_" No we have. I know someone who started axe when we were the same str/dex. He's now 25 str ahead of me, so it is the hard way. Also pan claw isn't very op levelling if it's not +3 or above, but all weapons are like that if you bash 3+ toe's on them. "GRASS_" Anyone who has 100% on blg certainly won't be levelling there for very long or they will have like 80 int or won't be able to hit str cap. As I said previously, there's only me and Hurricane who are close to "levelling" at blg with 100% and we won't be there for very long. The next people after that are Elric and J0ker. Can you name anyone who's doing pure dex after that? Pure dex characters will have an advantage over people who capped str with 95/100 dex but the people who have done that route knew that the cap maybe raised and the position they would be in when dex changed. Isylver has said that if he does increase cap, he will have a plan so people who didn't do much dex can still gain dex at a reasonable rate, rather than just being shafted and people like myself having higher dex, will just get more easier.
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[quote="YOSHIMITSU"][quote="GRASS_"]Dex is the best stat long run which is why we are seeing people making higher dex/ pure dex chars now.
When caps go up people with more dex will be in a hugely favourable situation to someone with 100 dex.[/quote]
How many people are doing this? Ace and Lupi are the only ones i've seen so far and lupi's is a LONG way behind, Ace's isn't the highest character you'll see in game either. People banging on about loads of people having 100% on BLG. There's 1 at the minute, will be 2/3 in the near future. That's hardly anything massive in comparison to the general Soma population.
[quote="GRASS_"]
All this talk about sacrificing your stats to do pure dex is nonsense as in the long run dex chars will be vastly superior.
Dex is also the fastest to level rather than compared to axe with pan claw being so op.[/quote]
No we have. I know someone who started axe when we were the same str/dex. He's now 25 str ahead of me, so it is the hard way.
Also pan claw isn't very op levelling if it's not +3 or above, but all weapons are like that if you bash 3+ toe's on them.
[quote="GRASS_"]
The only question here is does Isylver want people to be leveling with 100% eva on blg and in the future on higher mobs. Would be nice to see his thoughts. Pure dex chars will obviously argue it should stay in game as its in their best interests. [/quote]
Anyone who has 100% on blg certainly won't be levelling there for very long or they will have like 80 int or won't be able to hit str cap. As I said previously, there's only me and Hurricane who are close to "levelling" at blg with 100% and we won't be there for very long. The next people after that are Elric and J0ker. Can you name anyone who's doing pure dex after that? Pure dex characters will have an advantage over people who capped str with 95/100 dex but the people who have done that route knew that the cap maybe raised and the position they would be in when dex changed. Isylver has said that if he does increase cap, he will have a plan so people who didn't do much dex can still gain dex at a reasonable rate, rather than just being shafted and people like myself having higher dex, will just get more easier. [/quote]
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#43 2015/01/05 12:13:11 |
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IPHIOS |
Square go any dex char East gate.
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#44 2015/01/05 12:46:42 |
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GHOSTLORD |
The way it works afaik. Without hard evasion % (such as hero boots or eva upgrades) you can get 80% evasion rate.
In the same way you can get passed 80% hit rate by having hard accuracy. In my opinion minimum damage and 100% evasion are the same type of thing. However, min damage < evasion. Therefore evasion should be harder and longer to get. As for the dsoma part.... you need 30 more dex than the other person to get the max 80%. Therefor any devil with over 140 dex will have 80% on any human. They have 0 evasion items afaik.
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[quote="GHOSTLORD"]The way it works afaik. Without hard evasion % (such as hero boots or eva upgrades) you can get 80% evasion rate.
In the same way you can get passed 80% hit rate by having hard accuracy.
In my opinion minimum damage and 100% evasion are the same type of thing. However, min damage < evasion. Therefore evasion should be harder and longer to get.
As for the dsoma part.... you need 30 more dex than the other person to get the max 80%. Therefor any devil with over 140 dex will have 80% on any human. They have 0 evasion items afaik.
[/quote]
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#45 2015/01/05 12:57:14 |
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