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"GILGAMESH" In WotW who can honestly say they feel they do significant damage to devils with melee? Even on human cont, when devils are on reduced %, melee damage is an absolute joke to them, and there is no evidence that it will be different in the future when people have spent MONTHS grinding for 10-20 more strength, just to tickle them that bit harder.

"JARAGOONDOO"Isn't this how it's always been? Physical attack scales much better with skill than magic attack, so at end-game it'll always be to go-to choice. I think the tag system benefits weapons more than armours due to skill scaling.

Also humans that actually use melee at WotW against me do a good 1/4 of my HP (at least the stronger humans), they just miss a lot because my Dex is 105+. I am wearing Int robes, though. In my str gear I think it'll be more like 1/10 of my HP.

"KNUTSEL"105 dex is crazy ive heard slayer is 140+ dex no one in hsoma will get tht at wotw the devils dex needs to be nerfed aswell cause when thy do conti raids we physically cant cast against them and tbh u never see humans run onto conti and try and raid it when devils own it cause we no thy will just smash us in one hit i think its slightly unfair

"S0RCERER"

"KNUTSEL"105 dex is crazy ive heard slayer is 140+ dex no one in hsoma will get tht at wotw the devils dex needs to be nerfed aswell cause when thy do conti raids we physically cant cast against them and tbh u never see humans run onto conti and try and raid it when devils own it cause we no thy will just smash us in one hit i think its slightly unfair

That's so not true.

Humans used to raid back when they were on 60% and get kills on level 30~50 devils (devils that don't have 4th yet).

Just last devil Conti we had Gump and someone else, the name escapes me, killing level 30~45 devils at Conti Hoppers.

"BELKA"That just illustrates the point being made in the OP. For humans, melee stats are trash compared to int.

Gump etc can only kill devils using magic, even a level 70+ human wouldnt be able to kill a lvl 40 devil with melee, but with magic - sure.

I got lvl 85 on esoma dsoma and I never got more than tickled by even the highest humans when I was hunting hoppers and sub-level 50 on Abs - except with magic. Lisa_ross, Kinetic, Akin, Kaa etc all did minute damage to me with melee, but could scare and maybe kill me with magic. I know you were a mage, so maybe it was different for you - but we aren't really discussing devil mages here.

"GILGAMESH"I wanted to create this thread to bring attention to (and hopefully hear the justification for) how lackluster melee is atm in hsoma.

In human v human pvp end-game weapons with high strength users barely scratch each other in fights.
This combined with the significant nerfs to accuracy and by how impossible certain upgrade materials are to farm( there's a lot of frogs around, but not much to do with them) currently makes non-int soma feel neutered and stale. Evasion, which was once the apex of human pvp gear, now feels obsolete and pointless.... evade what? the 2-3% dmg a hit from someones bow? Or wear nightmare to tank the dragonbreath heading for you.

I've plenty of frogs sitting in my bank and no motivation to do anything with them. What is there to upgrade other than weapons that will help me do damage? Rubies and diamonds are nigh impossible to obtain for accuracy and SSs outside of events and BLG (for rubies and noone is even on them yet). I guess I can risk 10 frogs for that 3% evasion..... and subsequent 1% per upgrade.... really worthwhile; that evasions REALLY going to increase my damage output. With the new mob scaling evasion doesn't even feel worth it for pve (no more 100'ing dws/blg). Just bring a healer with you, and wear hallo/offensive armor pieces, you will level faster than with evasion and wont have wasted your frogs on high risk low reward upgrades. The current rate of diamonds coming in is so painfully slow, that it would take months for more than a handful of people to be able to think about swiftspirits, let alone get their 4th heals.

Boss fights are a further indication of how gimped melee currently is, as with such high defensive dex and strength you will be wasting your time if you are trying to kill a boss without magic.

People will justify the current state of the game by saying " just do int then?" and that has some merit. But int should be an option, not an overwhelming requirement for everything. There should be two ways to play soma, or at least a balance. Currently, you do int or you do fuck all.

In WotW who can honestly say they feel they do significant damage to devils with melee? Even on human cont, when devils are on reduced %, melee damage is an absolute joke to them, and there is no evidence that it will be different in the future when people have spent MONTHS grinding for 10-20 more strength, just to tickle them that bit harder.

In terms of time commitment, str and dex takes significantly more effort to gain than int. Why is there so little reward or use for it, compared to how much more you can achieve with high int?

TLDR: why is str/dex so unpractical for anything outside of pve, when it takes so long to get. The upgrade system also feels so hollow and unrewarding compared to how it was.

"BLADECY"All am saying to gms atm you killing the reson for someone to craft armor even if you add bone armor when they turned eva and players have 100% on their hunting mobs means no need for armor sr ... You really needto take a look into this

"S0RCERER"

"GILGAMESH" In WotW who can honestly say they feel they do significant damage to devils with melee? Even on human cont, when devils are on reduced %, melee damage is an absolute joke to them, and there is no evidence that it will be different in the future when people have spent MONTHS grinding for 10-20 more strength, just to tickle them that bit harder.

Wanted to just point out here that Melee hurts substantially more than magic against me during wars.

BUT I agree that Melee in general, is really bad here. This is a result of the tag system.

You've a weapon and armour with (hypothetical):

30~30 attack
10~10 helm
10~10 chest
10~10 legs
10~10 boots

30 att vs 40 def = 20 dmg per hit

Tag system is % based - lets give everything 50% (legendary tag).

45~45 attack
15~15 helm
15~15 chest
15~15 legs
15~15 boots

45 att vs 60 def = 15 dmg per hit

Regarding magic...

Magic attack barely benefits at all from the tag system, same for robes.
This means that magic is neither weaker, or stronger than it was on Esoma.

Melee defense however is substantially stronger than Esoma (You only start dealing noticeable damage when your weapon damage outstretches the bonus the tag system grants to armour).

This topic was brought up before as was clearly evident on Dsoma, you had 2 level 40 archers both with full epic dread & epic bow dealing 1 damage to eachother.

A knuckler will do close to no damage what-so-ever until they reach the high 70's as knuckles benefit the least from the tag system and armour is boosted enormously.

On the topic of stat speed, INT is only faster than STR/DEX because of the monsters and their stats.

If we look at Nightmare, they grant 2500 exp per monster (this affects INT gain and % speed) wheras their identical 'clone' on Dsoma grant only 1500 exp per monster. As a result, a level 60 mage on Dsoma leveling on Gargoyle Shaman will level almost half the speed as a level 60 human hunting Nightmares.

"MELENECK"Pretty much agree with this post except the fact that thanks to the improved magic damage cap magic is significantly stronger on here than it ever was on esoma. Melee got a nerf (upgrades and the new tag system) and magic got a buff (greatly increased magic damage cap)