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JARAGOONDOO |
"S0RCERER""ZYZZ"Stop wanting easymode soma, and get high enough to use the weps ;o. It's still early days l0l I am level 64. Using one of my RARE tagged knuckles, my damage on myself would be 30~90 (averaging 60). I would say that is working as intended.
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[quote="JARAGOONDOO"][quote="S0RCERER"][quote="ZYZZ"]Stop wanting easymode soma, and get high enough to use the weps ;o. It's still early days l0l[/quote]
I understand why you say this, but you have to realise that having a portion of the game (Str/Dex) be inferior to INT for the vast majority of the population is not how it was on Esoma, nor how it should be here.
This server has many improvements over Esoma, but the tag system affects Melee in a negative manner, where Melee only becomes worth using in PvP when you're in your last 20 levels.
On Esoma for eg. a knuckler on Dsoma would've needed to be about level 60 to start hurting other devils, due to the tag system and how it plays its part on armour, that same knuckler now needs another 10 levels before he becomes a threat.
On Hsoma, the case is the same, except the level bracket in which Melee becomes worthwhile using is even larger as the upgrades that affect Melee have been nerfed too.[/quote]
I am level 64. Using one of my RARE tagged knuckles, my damage on myself would be 30~90 (averaging 60). I would say that is working as intended.[/quote]
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#91 2013/12/12 20:25:18 |
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GREATERIX |
"JARAGOONDOO" I'm level 60. Using my EPIC Saw Knuckle the damage to myself in Displacer gear would be 22~26. Quite comically if I then put hero helm/pads/boots on, my damage would be 16~17.
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[quote="GREATERIX"][quote="JARAGOONDOO"]
I am level 64. Using one of my RARE tagged knuckles, my damage on myself would be 30~90 (averaging 60). I would say that is working as intended.[/quote]
I'm level 60.
Using my EPIC Saw Knuckle the damage to myself in Displacer gear would be 22~26.
Quite comically if I then put hero helm/pads/boots on, my damage would be 16~17.
[/quote]
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#92 2013/12/13 00:43:22 |
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PATHOLOGIST |
"JARAGOONDOO""S0RCERER""ZYZZ"Stop wanting easymode soma, and get high enough to use the weps ;o. It's still early days l0l Are you using rare invul? Do you take into consideration classes with Shields? Knock off 25dmg from each end.
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[quote="PATHOLOGIST"][quote="JARAGOONDOO"][quote="S0RCERER"][quote="ZYZZ"]Stop wanting easymode soma, and get high enough to use the weps ;o. It's still early days l0l[/quote]
I understand why you say this, but you have to realise that having a portion of the game (Str/Dex) be inferior to INT for the vast majority of the population is not how it was on Esoma, nor how it should be here.
This server has many improvements over Esoma, but the tag system affects Melee in a negative manner, where Melee only becomes worth using in PvP when you're in your last 20 levels.
On Esoma for eg. a knuckler on Dsoma would've needed to be about level 60 to start hurting other devils, due to the tag system and how it plays its part on armour, that same knuckler now needs another 10 levels before he becomes a threat.
On Hsoma, the case is the same, except the level bracket in which Melee becomes worthwhile using is even larger as the upgrades that affect Melee have been nerfed too.[/quote]
I am level 64. Using one of my RARE tagged knuckles, my damage on myself would be 30~90 (averaging 60). I would say that is working as intended.[/quote]
Are you using rare invul?
Do you take into consideration classes with Shields?
Knock off 25dmg from each end. [/quote]
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#93 2013/12/13 04:09:36 |
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S0RCERER |
I am level 64. Using one of my RARE tagged knuckles, my damage on myself would be 30~90 (averaging 60). I would say that is working as intended. Average 60 was intended back when health pools were 50% of what they are now. Lv80 devils used to have a tad over 300 hp. Now they have close to 600.
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[quote="S0RCERER"][quote=]I am level 64. Using one of my RARE tagged knuckles, my damage on myself would be 30~90 (averaging 60). I would say that is working as intended.[/quote]
Average 60 was intended back when health pools were 50% of what they are now.
Lv80 devils used to have a tad over 300 hp. Now they have close to 600.[/quote]
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#94 2013/12/13 07:34:02 |
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_SEPHIROTH_ |
"S0RCERER"Average 60 was intended back when health pools were 50% of what they are now. Good point I never thought about health pools being larger than esoma. |
#95 2013/12/13 07:44:01 |
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TRICEPTIMOUS |
"IPHIOS" Aye, I remember, consti won GVW i think after smashing int. Then sabretooth started training it up to match and the rest followed. I think one difference to note is that the impact is bigger here because, LL, Prisms, NM have been available from the start. On Esoma, past 75 INT there wasnt anything worth while to hunt for a long time as shanis was the top mob for INT i believe, unless you grinded it out, as consti did. It seems everyone wants to be able to kill people in 2 - 3 hits. No matter what balance is brought in, if someone is similar to you, it wont happen. Although I do agree, the defence vs attack tag systems is somewhat flawed.
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[quote="TRICEPTIMOUS"][quote="IPHIOS"]
Exact same thing happened in esoma though with consti and basil at the start. They got monster int by comparison to others and int seemed OP. Later ingame the balance came.
I don't really understand why people who have played soma in the past don't get it. ;o
/edit just seen that exact point has been made already ;o[/quote]
Aye, I remember, consti won GVW i think after smashing int. Then sabretooth started training it up to match and the rest followed.
I think one difference to note is that the impact is bigger here because, LL, Prisms, NM have been available from the start.
On Esoma, past 75 INT there wasnt anything worth while to hunt for a long time as shanis was the top mob for INT i believe, unless you grinded it out, as consti did.
It seems everyone wants to be able to kill people in 2 - 3 hits. No matter what balance is brought in, if someone is similar to you, it wont happen. Although I do agree, the defence vs attack tag systems is somewhat flawed.
[/quote]
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#96 2013/12/13 10:07:16 |
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GHOSTLORD |
"ACAELUS"Any chance we can get the thoughts of one of the board members on this topic!? otherwise there is no point in debating this further :P I like this thread a lot and as soon as I started reading this my brain started thinking along with you guys. However before I advise anything I need some time, especially since I'm helping my mate move this weekend so I don't have a lot of time for Soma. I do hope iSylver reads this thread. Also thank you guys for keeping it clean and on topic.
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[quote="GHOSTLORD"][quote="ACAELUS"]Any chance we can get the thoughts of one of the board members on this topic!? otherwise there is no point in debating this further :P[/quote]
I like this thread a lot and as soon as I started reading this my brain started thinking along with you guys. However before I advise anything I need some time, especially since I'm helping my mate move this weekend so I don't have a lot of time for Soma.
I do hope iSylver reads this thread. Also thank you guys for keeping it clean and on topic.[/quote]
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#97 2013/12/13 11:31:43 |
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BELKA |
"IPHIOS""S0RCERER""ZYZZ"Stop wanting easymode soma, and get high enough to use the weps ;o. It's still early days l0l This isn't the same game as esoma tho. Just look at the changes: 1) The magic damage cap being increased a lot 2) 2nd staff being awesome dodge 3) Hero mage is now awesome 4) 3% evasion accuracy down from 5/7% 5) Halved eva on hero boots and dodge 5) Healing scales with int. 6) The tag system massively favours armour over weapons I agree that esoma was a nice balance on magic and melee, but these changes are MASSIVE. In comparison to esoma they lead to a big decrease in melee power and a big increase in magic power. The reason for it, I believe, is that on the test server magic was ignored and never used. Hsoma became a similar autism simulator to dsoma - just cap melee stats then left click and hold (dont forget to click aura every 30 seconds too!) - and clearly playing a human should be much more interesting than that. However, these test server changes were for a completely different game - everything is radically different when you arent lvl 160 with 1500 hp and wearing 110 str armour. They simply don't work here and need to be re-addressed. "GHOSTLORD" Thanks for replying. You saw how unviable magic was on hsoma on the test server - and now look at it. With some smart changes and re-works magic is now completely viable. And that is brilliant, magic should be a key component of hsoma and everyone should need to train it. All this thread is saying is that it needs to be toned back a bit (or melee tuned up a bit) to bring both into balance so that a human can choose one style (magic or melee) to be their primary attack method.
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[quote="BELKA"][quote="IPHIOS"][quote="S0RCERER"][quote="ZYZZ"]Stop wanting easymode soma, and get high enough to use the weps ;o. It's still early days l0l[/quote]
I understand why you say this, but you have to realise that having a portion of the game (Str/Dex) be inferior to INT for the vast majority of the population is not how it was on Esoma, nor how it should be here.
[/quote]
Exact same thing happened in esoma though with consti and basil at the start. They got monster int by comparison to others and int seemed OP. Later ingame the balance came.
I don't really understand why people who have played soma in the past don't get it. ;o
/edit just seen that exact point has been made already ;o[/quote]
This isn't the same game as esoma tho.
Just look at the changes:
1) The magic damage cap being increased a lot
2) 2nd staff being awesome dodge
3) Hero mage is now awesome
4) 3% evasion accuracy down from 5/7%
5) Halved eva on hero boots and dodge
5) Healing scales with int.
6) The tag system massively favours armour over weapons
I agree that esoma was a nice balance on magic and melee, but these changes are MASSIVE. In comparison to esoma they lead to a big decrease in melee power and a big increase in magic power.
The reason for it, I believe, is that on the test server magic was ignored and never used. Hsoma became a similar autism simulator to dsoma - just cap melee stats then left click and hold (dont forget to click aura every 30 seconds too!) - and clearly playing a human should be much more interesting than that.
However, these test server changes were for a completely different game - everything is radically different when you arent lvl 160 with 1500 hp and wearing 110 str armour. They simply don't work here and need to be re-addressed.
[quote="GHOSTLORD"]
I like this thread a lot and as soon as I started reading this my brain started thinking along with you guys. However before I advise anything I need some time, especially since I'm helping my mate move this weekend so I don't have a lot of time for Soma.
I do hope iSylver reads this thread. Also thank you guys for keeping it clean and on topic.[/quote]
Thanks for replying.
You saw how unviable magic was on hsoma on the test server - and now look at it. With some smart changes and re-works magic is now completely viable. And that is brilliant, magic should be a key component of hsoma and everyone should need to train it.
All this thread is saying is that it needs to be toned back a bit (or melee tuned up a bit) to bring both into balance so that a human can choose one style (magic or melee) to be their primary attack method.
[/quote]
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#98 2013/12/13 11:52:09 |
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JARAGOONDOO |
Of course classes with shields and rare invul will have a fair bit more defense than me; but the damage to myself is still quite reasonable.
I agree with S0rc. Health pools were never this large in ESoma (why was it changed in the first place?); it's the reason for the massive imbalance at WotW. I honestly would not mind if it was put back to how it was (for DSoma).
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[quote="JARAGOONDOO"]Of course classes with shields and rare invul will have a fair bit more defense than me; but the damage to myself is still quite reasonable.
I agree with S0rc. Health pools were never this large in ESoma (why was it changed in the first place?); it's the reason for the massive imbalance at WotW. I honestly would not mind if it was put back to how it was (for DSoma).[/quote]
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#99 2013/12/13 14:09:43 |
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CARNAGE |
"JARAGOONDOO"I agree with S0rc. Health pools were never this large in ESoma (why was it changed in the first place?); it's the reason for the massive imbalance at WotW. I honestly would not mind if it was put back to how it was (for DSoma). I'm sorry mate but you what? lmao, low/mid-high devs have been complaining since I can remember that they're getting 2/3 hit with dbs and that's with the hp they have now. What do you think will happen if hp gets decreased with things like no magical cap? this isn't esoma so I'm sorry but I can't agree there.
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[quote="CARNAGE"][quote="JARAGOONDOO"]I agree with S0rc. Health pools were never this large in ESoma (why was it changed in the first place?); [b]it's the reason for the massive imbalance at WotW[/b]. I honestly would not mind if it was put back to how it was (for DSoma).[/quote]
I'm sorry mate but you what? lmao, low/mid-high devs have been complaining since I can remember that they're getting 2/3 hit with dbs and that's with the hp they have now. What do you think will happen if hp gets decreased with things like no magical cap? this isn't esoma so I'm sorry but I can't agree there.[/quote]
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#100 2013/12/13 14:25:01 |
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S0RCERER |
"CARNAGE""JARAGOONDOO"I agree with S0rc. Health pools were never this large in ESoma (why was it changed in the first place?); it's the reason for the massive imbalance at WotW. I honestly would not mind if it was put back to how it was (for DSoma). % would be allowed to increase at wars.
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[quote="S0RCERER"][quote="CARNAGE"][quote="JARAGOONDOO"]I agree with S0rc. Health pools were never this large in ESoma (why was it changed in the first place?); [b]it's the reason for the massive imbalance at WotW[/b]. I honestly would not mind if it was put back to how it was (for DSoma).[/quote]
I'm sorry mate but you what? lmao, low/mid-high devs have been complaining since I can remember that they're getting 2/3 hit with dbs and that's with the hp they have now. What do you think will happen if hp gets decreased with things like no magical cap? this isn't esoma so I'm sorry but I can't agree there.[/quote]
% would be allowed to increase at wars.
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#101 2013/12/13 15:05:02 |
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CARNAGE |
"S0RCERER"% would be allowed to increase at wars. So we all have our hp decreased, then follows the wave of humans complaining they still can't cast so we have our dex decreased etc etc hope you see where I'm going with this lol. I just don't think something like hp should have anything to do with weather % at wars is increased or not.
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[quote="CARNAGE"][quote="S0RCERER"]% would be allowed to increase at wars.[/quote]
So we all have our hp decreased, then follows the wave of humans complaining they still can't cast so we have our dex decreased etc etc hope you see where I'm going with this lol.
I just don't think something like hp should have anything to do with weather % at wars is increased or not.[/quote]
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#102 2013/12/13 15:10:17 |
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JARAGOONDOO |
I don't think I've ever seen low levels complaining about getting 2-3 hit with DBs. I have seen EVERYONE complain about doing 1 damage to humans (unless 60+) at this %. Also, magic cap makes no difference (S0rc explained it in another post somewhere).
Carnage you're probably one of the few devils at WotW that are actually a threat; the rest of us don't do crap (except stop casts).
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[quote="JARAGOONDOO"]I don't think I've ever seen low levels complaining about getting 2-3 hit with DBs. I have seen EVERYONE complain about doing 1 damage to humans (unless 60+) at this %. Also, magic cap makes no difference (S0rc explained it in another post somewhere).
Carnage you're probably one of the few devils at WotW that are actually a threat; the rest of us don't do crap (except stop casts).[/quote]
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#103 2013/12/13 15:29:46 |
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CARNAGE |
"JARAGOONDOO"I don't think I've ever seen low levels complaining about getting 2-3 hit with DBs. Mate I'm always seeing people complain or comment on how they get 2/3 hit by dbs, this usually happens when humans form a solid group outside the safe zone. I've also personally seen it happen from people I've been in party with at the time.
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[quote="CARNAGE"][quote="JARAGOONDOO"]I don't think I've ever seen low levels complaining about getting 2-3 hit with DBs.[/quote]
Mate I'm always seeing people complain or comment on how they get 2/3 hit by dbs, this usually happens when humans form a solid group outside the safe zone.
I've also personally seen it happen from people I've been in party with at the time.
[/quote]
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#104 2013/12/13 15:59:40 |
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GHOSTLORD |
"JARAGOONDOO"I don't think I've ever seen low levels complaining about getting 2-3 hit with DBs. I'm sorry to say that these complaints have been present and not just from low lvls. I also seem to miss the damage bonus from skill for melee weapons in most of the calculations shown.
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[quote="GHOSTLORD"][quote="JARAGOONDOO"]I don't think I've ever seen low levels complaining about getting 2-3 hit with DBs.[/quote]
I'm sorry to say that these complaints have been present and not just from low lvls.
I also seem to miss the damage bonus from skill for melee weapons in most of the calculations shown.[/quote]
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#105 2013/12/13 17:09:21 |
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