| Author | Content | Date |
|---|---|---|
|
JARAGOONDOO |
Sorry I didn't make myself clear. I'm not denying devils drop very quickly, I'm just saying there's a lack of people complaining about that; whereas literally everyone is complaining about damage done to humans (at this %).
Ghost, I have no idea what you're talking about. Did you perhaps quote the wrong person? Either way, why was devil HP increased? Every server I played Devils were always superior at WotW (but never this bad), so why the massive HP buff? Was it like this on test?
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="JARAGOONDOO"]Sorry I didn't make myself clear. I'm not denying devils drop very quickly, I'm just saying there's a lack of people complaining about that; whereas literally everyone is complaining about damage done to humans (at this %).
Ghost, I have no idea what you're talking about. Did you perhaps quote the wrong person?
Either way, why was devil HP increased? Every server I played Devils were always superior at WotW (but never this bad), so why the massive HP buff? Was it like this on test?[/quote]
|
#106 2013/12/13 17:34:29 |
|
CARNAGE |
"JARAGOONDOO"Either way, why was devil HP increased? Every server I played Devils were always superior at WotW (but never this bad), so why the massive HP buff? Was it like this on test? I know it's not directed at me but I'll just say that in my opinion the whole wotw balance issues and what not are more complicated than just a simple hp buff, a hp buff that has happened on both sides due to the con changes. I mean I know chars that are like nearly 25 levels lower than me with nearly the same hp. Maybe I've misunderstood what you mean and if that's the case you can just set me straight, I just don't get what hp has to do with what damage you're doing and what the % at wotw is. You think if hp gets decreased the % at wotw is automatically going to be upped? again I apologse if I'm misunderstanding you. Sorry to derail the topic aswell, since this isn't even about devs or wotw.
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="CARNAGE"][quote="JARAGOONDOO"]Either way, why was devil HP increased? Every server I played Devils were always superior at WotW (but never this bad), so why the massive HP buff? Was it like this on test?[/quote]
I know it's not directed at me but I'll just say that in my opinion the whole wotw balance issues and what not are more complicated than just a simple hp buff, a hp buff that has happened on both sides due to the con changes. I mean I know chars that are like nearly 25 levels lower than me with nearly the same hp.
Maybe I've misunderstood what you mean and if that's the case you can just set me straight, I just don't get what hp has to do with what damage you're doing and what the % at wotw is. You think if hp gets decreased the % at wotw is automatically going to be upped? again I apologse if I'm misunderstanding you.
Sorry to derail the topic aswell, since this isn't even about devs or wotw.
[/quote]
|
#107 2013/12/13 18:03:34 |
|
JARAGOONDOO |
"CARNAGE""JARAGOONDOO"Either way, why was devil HP increased? Every server I played Devils were always superior at WotW (but never this bad), so why the massive HP buff? Was it like this on test?I know it's not directed at me but I'll just say that in my opinion the whole wotw balance issues and what not are more complicated than just a simple hp buff, a hp buff that has happened on both sides due to the con changes. I mean I know chars that are like nearly 25 levels lower than me with nearly the same hp. Maybe I've misunderstood what you mean and if that's the case you can just set me straight, I just don't get what hp has to do with what damage you're doing and what the % at wotw is. You think if hp gets decreased the % at wotw is automatically going to be upped? again I apologse if I'm misunderstanding you. Sorry to derail the topic aswell, since this isn't even about devs or wotw. It's no worries. I apologise for derailing the thread, too! I'm on my phone right now so it's a bit hard for me to explain the implications of the HP buff (and the implications if it were changed back). S0rc seems to be on the same page as me though, so maybe he would like to explain if he doesn't mind doing so (covering how increased % would result in us still being quite tanky even with half HP and how coupled with weaken this tankiness is further improved, plus anything else).
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="JARAGOONDOO"][quote="CARNAGE"][quote="JARAGOONDOO"]Either way, why was devil HP increased? Every server I played Devils were always superior at WotW (but never this bad), so why the massive HP buff? Was it like this on test?[/quote] I know it's not directed at me but I'll just say that in my opinion the whole wotw balance issues and what not are more complicated than just a simple hp buff, a hp buff that has happened on both sides due to the con changes. I mean I know chars that are like nearly 25 levels lower than me with nearly the same hp. Maybe I've misunderstood what you mean and if that's the case you can just set me straight, I just don't get what hp has to do with what damage you're doing and what the % at wotw is. You think if hp gets decreased the % at wotw is automatically going to be upped? again I apologse if I'm misunderstanding you. Sorry to derail the topic aswell, since this isn't even about devs or wotw. [/quote]
It's no worries. I apologise for derailing the thread, too!
I'm on my phone right now so it's a bit hard for me to explain the implications of the HP buff (and the implications if it were changed back).
S0rc seems to be on the same page as me though, so maybe he would like to explain if he doesn't mind doing so (covering how increased % would result in us still being quite tanky even with half HP and how coupled with weaken this tankiness is further improved, plus anything else).
[/quote]
|
#108 2013/12/13 21:20:14 |
|
CHOJINE |
I personally think a good system that could possibly work is as follows:
If you attack an enemy of equal STR to yourself, you each inflict 10 dam to each other + your weapons attack / Att+ accessories. Each 1.0 STR above the enemies STR you are, you inflict an extra 2 dam. i.e. If you have 90 STR, and melee a 70 STR char, you will inflict 10 + 40 + weapon Att + accessories to the enemy. Conversely, for every 1.0 STR you are below an enemies STR, you inflict -2 dam, down to a maximum of 1 dam inflicted. This system would bring melee damage scaling in line with INT scaling, and also make STR a valid PvP choice, as just as how having 40 INT below someone now = you get bulldozed, it will be the same with STR. Armor defense can still be utilized for PvE. This system may be too difficult to implement, though.
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="CHOJINE"]I personally think a good system that could possibly work is as follows:
If you attack an enemy of equal STR to yourself, you each inflict 10 dam to each other + your weapons attack / Att+ accessories.
Each 1.0 STR above the enemies STR you are, you inflict an extra 2 dam.
i.e. If you have 90 STR, and melee a 70 STR char, you will inflict 10 + 40 + weapon Att + accessories to the enemy.
Conversely, for every 1.0 STR you are below an enemies STR, you inflict -2 dam, down to a maximum of 1 dam inflicted.
This system would bring melee damage scaling in line with INT scaling, and also make STR a valid PvP choice, as just as how having 40 INT below someone now = you get bulldozed, it will be the same with STR.
Armor defense can still be utilized for PvE.
This system may be too difficult to implement, though.
[/quote]
|
#109 2013/12/14 11:12:33 |
|
GHOSTLORD |
I'll give my perspective of what I expect to be options for 'fixes':
- PvP weapons with extra damage on other race, maybe even people - A new set of PvP weapons - A more effective % change that changes dex, hp, the whole lot (I don't know if this is possible, if it is it'll take time) - Overall weapon damage increase for both races (end-game devil weapons wouldn't need to be touched, (except for staff) - HSoma noob weapons could increase more than top end - Even though I don't like it at all since HP is calculated now it is one of the easiest things to change. However I wouldn't advise this at all. HP on the test server was fine (devils had a bit less than humans, but it was much more even) As for +100 pots, I don't think this will solve it in the long run but I'll re-post my compromise idea: +100 pots. I don't believe they should be deleted, however I am willing to go for an alternative - make them stupidly expensive (yes even more) or we could reduce their stack size to around 20 as 'life savers' (if this is implemented we don't need the higher barr). I didn't calculate this for HSoma but I do believe their +100 pots should get similar treatment if devils get this.
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="GHOSTLORD"]I'll give my perspective of what I expect to be options for 'fixes':
- PvP weapons with extra damage on other race, maybe even people
- A new set of PvP weapons
- A more effective % change that changes dex, hp, the whole lot (I don't know if this is possible, if it is it'll take time)
- Overall weapon damage increase for both races (end-game devil weapons wouldn't need to be touched, (except for staff) - HSoma noob weapons could increase more than top end
- Even though I don't like it at all since HP is calculated now it is one of the easiest things to change. However I wouldn't advise this at all. HP on the test server was fine (devils had a bit less than humans, but it was much more even)
As for +100 pots, I don't think this will solve it in the long run but I'll re-post my compromise idea:
[quote]+100 pots. I don't believe they should be deleted, however I am willing to go for an alternative - make them stupidly expensive (yes even more) or we could reduce their stack size to around 20 as 'life savers' (if this is implemented we don't need the higher barr).
Let's look at how the pots are divided at the moment:
+10 pots cost 13 barr - a ratio of 1.3 (w1)
+20 cost 32 barr - ratio 1.6 (w1)
+25 cost 39 barr - ratio 1.56 (this is an unused pots due to it being weight 2)
+50 cost 110 barr - ratio 2.2 (w3)
+100 cost 330 barr - ratio 3.3 (w4)
I'd like to suggest changing the +25 pots to a +75 pot with a ratio of 2.6. This would mean a price of 195 barr. I'd make them weight 3 though I do believe making them way 4 is debatable.
Suggested:
+75 cost 195 barr - ratio 2.6 (w3 or 5)
+100 cost 400 barr - ratio 4 (w4)
This would mean PvP has gotten a little cheaper if you use +75 pots. If you don't save you're barr you'll be forced to use them. The +75 pot should turn into the go to pot for PvP except for important moment (holding stone) or very rich people (money sink).
[/quote]
I didn't calculate this for HSoma but I do believe their +100 pots should get similar treatment if devils get this.[/quote]
|
#110 2013/12/14 12:02:08 |
|
TAKESHI |
Hsoma +100s cost 334 Barr ish at virt moral already
|
#111 2013/12/14 12:54:47 |
|
S0RCERER |
I believe one of the reasons that's overlooked regarding melee v magic is the following:
All robes ingame have magic defence and defence. All melee items only have defence. If you were to remove all defence from magic gear, but increase the magic defence to be equal to that of their defence counterpart (Lets say Nightmare=Bone) then you'd see a change in what people choose to wear in pvp/pve. At present, you don't lose such a huge amount of defence by equipping Nightmare set over a Bone set. If you equip nothing but Melee items, then against magic, you're effectively naked. It would require testing, but even as a devil mage who has no choice but to use magic, i'd be interested in seeing a system where all magic gear had higher magic defence than they currently have, but remove all physical defence from them. You'd notice that your choice of armour/robes plays a big impact on what someone decides to use against you.
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="S0RCERER"]I believe one of the reasons that's overlooked regarding melee v magic is the following:
All robes ingame have magic defence and defence.
All melee items only have defence.
If you were to remove all defence from magic gear, but increase the magic defence to be equal to that of their defence counterpart (Lets say Nightmare=Bone) then you'd see a change in what people choose to wear in pvp/pve.
At present, you don't lose such a huge amount of defence by equipping Nightmare set over a Bone set.
If you equip nothing but Melee items, then against magic, you're effectively naked.
It would require testing, but even as a devil mage who has no choice but to use magic, i'd be interested in seeing a system where all magic gear had higher magic defence than they currently have, but remove all physical defence from them.
You'd notice that your choice of armour/robes plays a big impact on what someone decides to use against you.[/quote]
|
#112 2013/12/14 15:21:14 |
|
ONAGA |
I have had to spend a shit load of hours just to get from 70+ str to 80+ str, I don't feel any stronger at all really - because i'm not.
In the time it spent me to do this str leveling i could have gone from 75+ int to like 95+ maybe more, and it would have actually been worth the time - i would without a doubt be noticably stronger in a pvp situation. Really... what is even the point in training str AT ALL? Everyone in gvw/pvp uses magic i'd be better off with 100 int and 10 str/dex because the chances of someone using a melee attack are near enough ZERO ;o
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="ONAGA"]I have had to spend a shit load of hours just to get from 70+ str to 80+ str, I don't feel any stronger at all really - because i'm not.
In the time it spent me to do this str leveling i could have gone from 75+ int to like 95+ maybe more, and it would have actually been worth the time - i would without a doubt be noticably stronger in a pvp situation.
Really... what is even the point in training str AT ALL? Everyone in gvw/pvp uses magic i'd be better off with 100 int and 10 str/dex because the chances of someone using a melee attack are near enough ZERO ;o[/quote]
|
#113 2013/12/14 19:47:48 |
|
S0RCER3R |
We are told on dsoma to rely on our weapon skill bonus to make up for the lack of physical dmg.
At around 140 skill you should be getting a reasonable skill dmg bonus, so maybe you could concentrate on that? |
#114 2013/12/14 20:10:13 |
|
BELKA |
There are 2 arguments really.
The first is 'What will be better at lvl 100 and 99% - melee or magic?' The second is 'Is melee too inefficient to level compared to magic?' I think Onaga was talking more about the second one. I think that the first is more important, but the second is also very valid. Gaining DEX after 65 or STR after 80 is so slow that I wonder why I should spend hours on each stat when my int will be the same speed it is now all the way till 95. Yes, when I cap them in a year (lol) then I expect things to be balanced, and that is what Gilga was mainly referring to in the OP. Yet this game is mostly about the leveling process, I'd guess that most players won't cap out. To hit 95 INT is so much faster than getting any comparable level in melee stats that it makes melee not only useless at the cap, but on the way their too.
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="BELKA"]There are 2 arguments really.
The first is 'What will be better at lvl 100 and 99% - melee or magic?'
The second is 'Is melee too inefficient to level compared to magic?'
I think Onaga was talking more about the second one. I think that the first is more important, but the second is also very valid.
Gaining DEX after 65 or STR after 80 is so slow that I wonder why I should spend hours on each stat when my int will be the same speed it is now all the way till 95. Yes, when I cap them in a year (lol) then I expect things to be balanced, and that is what Gilga was mainly referring to in the OP.
Yet this game is mostly about the leveling process, I'd guess that most players won't cap out. To hit 95 INT is so much faster than getting any comparable level in melee stats that it makes melee not only useless at the cap, but on the way their too.
[/quote]
|
#115 2013/12/14 22:01:26 |
|
MADMIAR |
Well let alone, Humans do have Hero armor which is easily obtainable.
Hero armor will be op, it just takes time for melee to come and int to go - It will be like the test- Then, later on people will wear the hero helm, and hero boot 5~5% accu, 5~5% evasion And, like Ghost said there might be another pvp set, of weapon and armor just like -E perhaps from test. When you get tagged drops, (Epic,Intense) its basically legendary gear you already have the advantage of many healers aswell.
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="MADMIAR"]Well let alone, Humans do have Hero armor which is easily obtainable.
Hero armor will be op, it just takes time for melee to come and int to go - It will be like the test-
Then, later on people will wear the hero helm, and hero boot 5~5% accu, 5~5% evasion
And, like Ghost said there might be another pvp set, of weapon and armor just like -E perhaps from test.
When you get tagged drops, (Epic,Intense) its basically legendary gear you already have the advantage of many healers aswell.
[/quote]
|
#116 2013/12/14 22:14:19 |
|
GILGAMESH |
"ONAGA"I have had to spend a shit load of hours just to get from 70+ str to 80+ str, I don't feel any stronger at all really - because i'm not. I think(hope) that the scaling issues will be resolved at some point when attk manages to stretch further ahead of defenses, as there is no stronger armour after bone for humans. Leo for example is doing pretty decent damage at roughly 115+ But for str to have no application (other than gaining more str) until this threshold is reached was one of the main issues I wanted raised.
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="GILGAMESH"][quote="ONAGA"]I have had to spend a shit load of hours just to get from 70+ str to 80+ str, I don't feel any stronger at all really - because i'm not.
In the time it spent me to do this str leveling i could have gone from 75+ int to like 95+ maybe more, and it would have actually been worth the time - i would without a doubt be noticably stronger in a pvp situation.
Really... what is even the point in training str AT ALL? Everyone in gvw/pvp uses magic i'd be better off with 100 int and 10 str/dex because the chances of someone using a melee attack are near enough ZERO ;o[/quote]
I think(hope) that the scaling issues will be resolved at some point when attk manages to stretch further ahead of defenses, as there is no stronger armour after bone for humans. Leo for example is doing pretty decent damage at roughly 115+
But for str to have no application (other than gaining more str) until this threshold is reached was one of the main issues I wanted raised.[/quote]
|
#117 2013/12/14 22:36:34 |
|
ONAGA |
"GILGAMESH"But for str to have no application (other than gaining more str) until this threshold is reached was one of the main issues I wanted raised. This. You know I was looking forward to getting 4th sword aura so damn much, it felt like esoma again, the sheer power of 120 skill sword damage aura in the palm of my char's hands! I will be feared... in 10 more skill... I will be feared. Can't even be fucked to get it anymore, it just isn't worth the time spent. I've decided in order to become powerful I must get more intelligence, I must be like everyone else in the lands of Soma. Intellect is the most powerful weapon one can wield and i'm getting brainier by the day bitches.
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="ONAGA"][quote="GILGAMESH"]But for str to have no application (other than gaining more str) until this threshold is reached was one of the main issues I wanted raised.[/quote]
This.
You know I was looking forward to getting 4th sword aura so damn much, it felt like esoma again, the sheer power of 120 skill sword damage aura in the palm of my char's hands! I will be feared... in 10 more skill... I will be feared.
Can't even be fucked to get it anymore, it just isn't worth the time spent.
I've decided in order to become powerful I must get more intelligence, I must be like everyone else in the lands of Soma.
Intellect is the most powerful weapon one can wield and i'm getting brainier by the day bitches.
[/quote]
|
#118 2013/12/14 23:05:15 |
|
IPHIOS |
"BELKA" It's not. Instead of pissing and moaning constant go check it out. Ran out of constructive things to say.
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="IPHIOS"][quote="BELKA"]
Gaining DEX after 65 or STR after 80 is so slow that I wonder why I should spend hours on each stat [b]when my int will be the same speed it is now all the way till 95[/b]
[/quote]
It's not. Instead of pissing and moaning constant go check it out.
Ran out of constructive things to say.[/quote]
|
#119 2013/12/15 01:14:06 |
|
IPHIOS |
"ONAGA"I have had to spend a shit load of hours just to get from 70+ str to 80+ str, I don't feel any stronger at all really - because i'm not. You are stronger - you are 10 attack and 10 defence stronger. Probably around 3 dex also. No you couldn't have got that int. go try it and see.
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="IPHIOS"][quote="ONAGA"]I have had to spend a shit load of hours just to get from 70+ str to 80+ str, I don't feel any stronger at all really - because i'm not.
In the time it spent me to do this str leveling i could have gone from 75+ int to like 95+ maybe more[/quote]
You are stronger - you are 10 attack and 10 defence stronger. Probably around 3 dex also.
No you couldn't have got that int. go try it and see.[/quote]
|
#120 2013/12/15 01:18:20 |
Please sign in with one of your characters to reply