The Forum

[quote="NS"]Now I know this might be shot out of the air pretty quickly by a few people but for the good of the game it has got to help I see no way it could be damaging to anyone other than their ego. I think the difference between a geared char via bought items(Illegal), items sharing and people quitting and giving away gear to his friends compared to a guy who's your average joe is absolutely ridiculous, it used to be get to lvl 100 and you can compete, it is now get to lvl 100 farm forever break everything and probably quit (if you aren't the lucky few with a bob or very generous friends). The proposed idea if you like is a nerf of upgrades (this is geared towards more hsoma) so it is more in line with dsoma upgrades it would be so nice to not see a machine gun for a bow and people unhittable ect. I think this would also help with the bow be all and end all until you need to cap str... Upgrades to nerf (in my opinion): Keen Eye Dragons Pill Toe SS Clean tablet (Access only) I understand it is nice to acquire game breaking items and be able to kill people alot weaker than you in seconds, but surely for longevity of the game a maximum of a flat A spd for bows/1h axes (obv different values for other weps) would not be a disaster and a maximum of 5% eva/acc and +8 Attk ring/ma ring (necky,Earring) wouldn't be either. I understand it might not be possible as item recalculations would be needed but it would help the game a huge amount. Discuss.[/quote]

[quote="WARRE"]Limit upgrade to max of +3, fraid this will be too late thow[/quote]

[quote="JACKELPUP"]Personally, I think it should be looked at differently. I appreciate what you are saying but there appears to be an additional factor that, if “sorted”, would resolve the issue you are addressing (albeit not retrospectively). The number of upgraded items (especially on top end gear) is far beyond a believable amount. “Apparently”, items can be upgraded using “failers” to increase success rates although this is hotly disputed by some. Now, it seems, you don’t even need the “failers” to achieve success. Even if sufficient upgrade items were readily available (and they are not) it would be virtually impossible to achieve a +8 item (or even +5 for that matter) and, yet, there are an astronomical amount of upgraded items in game on active players and stuck on inactive/banned players. The tables below are taken from another thread and show the likelihood of success “all things being equal”. I know that crafters will say that they have broken lots of items at the anvil (and I have no doubt they have) but based simply on mathematics and “chance” it just isn’t possible to achieve the level of upgraded items in game with the materials/items available. Logically, there must be a known factor that some people are aware of that significantly increases the chances of success to an almost certainty (or certainty). Of course it will be denied (it has to be) but if that advantage were to be removed then level 100 characters would be less unbalanced. Based on the 150skill table, you would need (roughly) around 256 CT/DT or ToWs to “waste” in order to get an average chance of a +8 upgrade (and that doesn’t include the number of intense/legendary items that would also be broken during the process). Obviously no one has used that many to achieve an upgrade (such a number is unavailable) and no one has had sufficient rare/epic/intense/legendary items to waste either. The wastage figure is higher for upgrades that require a skill where the crafter has less than 150 skill. Please don’t just say it’s down to “luck” because the figures don’t come close to stacking up. Jac. Rolling Odds 100skill; +0~+1: 56% +0~+2: 29.12% +0~+3: 13.9776% +0~+4: 6.150144% +0~+5: 2.4600576% +0~+6: 0.885629736% +0~+7: 0.28340151552% +0~+8: 0.0793524243456% 150skill; +0~+1: 67% +0~+2: 42.88% +0~+3: 26.1568% +0~+4: 15.170944% +0~+5: 8.3440192% +0~+6: 4.338889984% +0~+7: 2.12605609216% +0~+8: 0.9779858023936% 200skill +0~+1: 68% +0~+2: 44.88% +0~+3: 28.7232% +0~+4: 17.808384% +0~+5: 10.6850304% +0~+6: 6.197317632% +0~+7: 3.47049787392% +0~+8: 1.8740688519168% 0 skill upgrades, such as ToW, DT, RDT use the 150skill numbers as its template. [/quote]

[quote="WAKKAA"]It's just luck jack [/quote]

[quote="JACKELPUP"][quote=Jackelpup]Please don’t just say it’s down to “luck” because the figures don’t come close to stacking up.[/quote] o0 Jac[/quote]

[quote="WAKKAA"]with all the databases that's been released over the years, it would've been public knowledge if there was some particular formula to be used would it not? made numerous +5's and failed even more using failures and balls to the wall 3 toe's in a row etc, its just random.[/quote]

[quote="KETO"][quote="WARRE"]Limit upgrade to max of +3, fraid this will be too late thow[/quote] If when the patch comes with level cap raise: Drastically increase damage on new weapons and defense on new armours Limit upgrades on new tier weps / armour / access to +3 Anyone who wants to use old gear can still do so and still upgrade to +8 if they want but the new weapons / armor should discourage people from using them.[/quote]

[quote="OPENTHEDOOR"]Jac - I have never seen you at magmas or bosses. The 2 places to get upgrade items. I went to mags and was getting a CT every 2-3 hours. If someone was to put 6 hours a day like Papapilas they could easily get 14 in a week for example. On topic : bit late now would cause a lot of people to leave. Also how would you stop someone giving their friend an item if they leave? Seems harsh they couldn't help friends out if they leave. I think nearly 4 years in it's a little late?[/quote]

[quote="QIANG"]People judge too much on 1v1 duels and with the meta mentality of go dex char or go mage. There's an over abundance of people coming against someone running a build just like them. Of course if 2 people have signed up to the idea of say the cap str, 120+ dex, 90ish int build, if they duel each other, its obviously going to be whoever has the most upgrades, nothing wrong with that. But look at gvw, those high dex, low int builds dont get the kills apart from low levels. They are only good for interrupting mages and being a hp drain by attrition on people's pots. DL tbh doesn't really win due to having more upgrades, it wins because it brings the most diverse build lineup, they have the tanks, archers and mages. Look back to when saiyans traded gv for a short while, if it was about upgrades or stats we'd have never won, as DL had roughly +30-70 str/dex/int on our members. Our losses were due to guild running mainly one type of build. Give it a month or two, many cap str and int builds coming through, likely to shift the meta and change the value of certain upgrades. This game is rock paper scissors cant expect to win against everyone.[/quote]

[quote="NS"]You're sadly wrong Qiang If you have less than 110 dex you will hit 3/10 at most and that's against the average char these days rendering any char with less than 115 dex useless, anyone with 160+ int who has the damage to kill someone with low int is locked down and only becomes useful when a stone has been landed, you name me any char with less than 110 dex that can defend against the op geared chars I'm sure there is plenty more but tongskie for example with his attk access sleeps capped str chars in 4 hits reducing the maximum attk you could gain via upgrades would drastically remove this overpowered domination in a situation. If you are hunting and you have one eye on the T.V i guarentee with little or no gear any of the guys with stupid gear could kill you before any sort of reaction with a double hitting bow. Not taking a dig at tong or anyone with massive gear I just don't see this as realistic when two people are of the same level, I agree the person with better should have an obvious advantage but to kill someone almost instantly because you can hit them 5-10 times every other second is a tad overkill? Just like to add under 110 dex would only be useless if you didn't have a 5% acc set atleast which not every tom dick and harry own.[/quote]

[quote="LUPISCUS"]more levels .. more stats... should help to alleviate the gear disparity ( assuming u play hard and gain the levels and stats ). And new tiers of weps and armour..and accessories...that will supercede the current stuff ... yes nerf the upgrade items ..so the disparity isnt as great. Dont make a max of +3 tho... need the risk and success factor to make ur gear different to other ppl's. If was maxed at +3 ..every1 would have it in a few weeks and the gears would be identical..almost. If possible..some policing of buying items would be useful... Though ..im sure the gm's are aware of all these concerns and working on how to solve them ;)[/quote]

[quote="FOXO_STORE"]The main problem you're talking about is bow, the range and speed it can go to, like you said, just makes it non-competitive against more normal players. If we're honest though, the lay of the land is that at end game currently, its about attacking power, speed and you can get that, plus limitless range with bow plus its dodge aura.. There is no other weapon in the game with screen wide range and it makes tanking in mass pvp impossible. I've always been off the opinion that bow attack power should decrease by a % per square the player or monster is away. Making it have to compete with the other weapon classes directly. Would bring bow prices down ;p Staff/Int should be the only weapon in game that's allowed to dominate at range but at least that's interruptable However, nothings going to change because most people (maybe myself) end up bow by the end, so theres no real complaint from the majority. That itself should be the problem but meh. If people are seemingly happy...go forth ;p[/quote]

[quote="CHOJINE"]As previously stated, the only real way of dealing with the aforementioned situation would be to limit the upgrade amount on future implemented items and make them a lot better than current top tier gear to draw people to use them.[/quote]

[quote="JPOT"][b]nerf bow range[/b], buff other weapons to make them at least viable in pvp.[/quote]