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[quote="NEOXIAN"]Damage output for devils is still hugely lower than damage in. Find a level 74 human get him to DB me, I'll then 4th him and you see the huge difference in output vs input [/quote]

[quote="RELINA"]But then that same human 4th you and see the dmg Yes the % is silly and finito has altered it when we get a reboot. If it's to high human will die to fast and not show up To low and then a massive ammout of humans show up because they can get kills and pos Need to alter the way pos works so even if you die 10 times you come away with a bit of pos rather than -2000 Or remove safe zone to spread everyone out more in castle[/quote]

[quote="OPENTHEDOOR"]Carnage still hurts everyone attending, bar Leo a lot! The trouble is, WotW is so reliant on consists numbers to balance it, and that's the only variable that cannot be controlled. The GM's face an impossible task. Human attendance basically double from last week to this week and no amount of % change can account for that. The same as a few weeks ago when most humans didn't turn up apart from G5 and EQ and now they do. Hard thing to balance out really. [/quote]

[quote="OPENTHEDOOR"]There should be "pos" assists. All the humans working together weakening, stoning for people and they get nothing. If someone dies and you have hit him, you should get an "assist" for it. [/quote]

[quote="999"][quote="OPENTHEDOOR"]Carnage still hurts everyone attending, bar Leo a lot! The trouble is, WotW is so reliant on consists numbers to balance it, and that's the only variable that cannot be controlled. The GM's face an impossible task. Human attendance basically double from last week to this week and no amount of % change can account for that. The same as a few weeks ago when most humans didn't turn up apart from G5 and EQ and now they do. Hard thing to balance out really. [/quote] If a guild doesnt turn up to GVW in the same number as the previous week, do they deserve to win it? NO. You don't nerf everyone else. The actual war is what most of us go for, not the win or loss.[/quote]

[quote="OPENTHEDOOR"]You seem to have an amazing ability to not read anything I have posted and then respond in a useless way. GVW and WotW cannot be compared. They are like chalk and cheese. WotW has a % system for races that are unbalanced. GV war is a same race fight. And is balanced near enough. [/quote]

[quote="999"][quote="OPENTHEDOOR"]You seem to have an amazing ability to not read anything I have posted and then respond in a useless way. GVW and WotW cannot be compared. They are like chalk and cheese. WotW has a % system for races that are unbalanced. GV war is a same race fight. And is balanced near enough. [/quote] When we have a decent % war and good attendance from both sides, why should the % then be adjusted every time there is a win or loss? Surely it means we have found balance, and the only thing required is for both sides to attend as if they want to win. So it is like GV, the ONLY difference is finding the fixed balanced %, not some altering value. Then the only thing determining a win or loss is attendance, and that will then fall on humans or devils shoulders to fix, not to have every devil below 85 completely useless compared to any level 55/60 human with a little int. Take into consideration that if humans were to burn through as many 100s as we do, you will have a similar survival rate. Watching linkdx's videos and being on skype with EQ for most wars shows there is no real need to hammer that pot button any way near as much as we all do.[/quote]

[quote="OPENTHEDOOR"]Well that's mostly my point. What is the balance? What is the "proper" attendance for humans? Nobody can even think about knowing either of them. I also think there is an attitude amount devils about not turning up under a certain level which is false. Correct me if I am wrong, but dex isn't affected by %, there are a lot of devil archers with high dex and a lot of mages who get kills with lower dex. Why can't a lot of level 40 and 50's turn up with feathers and just be a cast stopping annoyance? [/quote]

[quote="999"]They do, and they are literally 1 hit by the reasonably high int humans (110) Which of course seems to be acceptable, but being hit+5th by carnage is overpowered in everyone else' eyes because of course, he is a devil.[/quote]

[quote="EVILACE"]You sure are active on the forums now you've purchased Style I'm selling my level 25 healer, 76 staff skill, $100, interested? On topic~ Attendance will rise when conti or the castle has changes made to it that all levels need, as of now the only need (need?) is leiver beasts.[/quote]

[quote="NEOXIAN"]opendthedoor, let me re-educate you on a few issues. the below figures are not hyperbole and are infact true numbers. a level 50 devil will be 1 hit killed with int therefore no amount of dex will make his attendance worthwhile. i came in last night to war, and in int robes while grey from pk so all could see Lordcoos with a bow can hit and 4th me to about 40% hp. 500 hp, less 60% means he hits me for 135 then 165 with 4th. I hit him for about 40 and 75 respectively with my 4th. this is the difference between my damage and 187's damage who's 90+ Now, put str armor on, and he hits me for 40% of my hp with a hit and 4th, meaning he's doing around 85 and 120 with his 4th... but because i now have strength armor on, fujitora with ~240? magic attack less my passive 86 wis (86 defence) means he's hitting me for around 300 hp weakened. this is 60% of my hp in one hit. there are plenty of other humans with similar or the same int as fuji since it's so easy to train int (faster levelling than dsoma un-arguably) so basically, in int armor i am royally raped by melee. in strength armor i'm disgustingly raped by int. INPUT damage >>>>>>>>> my output damage. if the balance changed to where it should be humans would have a fit and cry because they use pots. just 10 minutes last night i used 190k barr on pots because it's spam-city and is the only reason we stay alive. humans hardly even bring +100's and can tank the entire dsoma population. issue - dsoma generally turn up in full force regardless of % (except last night because it's now gone beyond stupid) hsoma only turn up when it suits them. if hsoma NEED conti, they will need to attend, hence always turning up with similar numbers, which in turn will make a balance figure attainable. i believe it's somewhere around 72.5% to make input = to output for both races. don't get me wrong, the likes of plum and the unkillables will hate the war changing to a fair % but if it's made desirable to own conti, they will have to suck it up and attend anyway.[/quote]

[quote="OPENTHEDOOR"]I've always been a fairly active poster. Just today I find myself procrastinating from work, and this is an interesting topic. You don't need to educate me on anything, I know the issue is purely down to numbers consistently attending. Which is why I am encouraging people to say more than just % needs changing or WotW was crap. Conti will need a pretty big overhaul if it's going to be a "must" for human attendance. So ideas for this would help more, that's all I am trying to say. You won't find anyone saying %'s are "fair" at the moment. [/quote]

[quote="TRICEPTIMOUS"]Is it possible to make the amount of POS gained from a kill to be XX times the amount lost? I.E. I get killed by carnage, I loose 50 pos, but Carnage gained 200 pos? Or Carnage gets killed by me and looses 500 poss, but I gain 2000 pos? [/quote]

[quote="GHOSTLORD"][quote="NEOXIAN"] dsoma generally turn up in full force regardless of % (except last night because it's now gone beyond stupid) .[/quote] They turned up in full force last week + every inactive seemed to have logged on. I haven't seen so many devils in pande at once for a long time. I do agree most left due to the %, but the turnout was excellent. This seemed to have happened on both sides by the way. First 10 minutes SZ area (outside) was filled with humans, about 1/3 seemed to have left during wow. In the end the same old devils still had a go at the throne room which was a good assault. The % had been changed before the wow by iSylver unfortunately Finito wasn't around to reboot. :( Other than that I agree with most posts here, conti/wow needs work.[/quote]

[quote="YOSHIMITSU"][quote="NEOXIAN"]i came in last night to war, and in int robes while grey from pk so all could see Lordcoos with a bow can hit and 4th me to about 40% hp. 500 hp, less 60% means he hits me for 135 then 165 with 4th. I hit him for about 40 and 75 respectively with my 4th. this is the difference between my damage and 187's damage who's 90+ Now, put str armor on, and he hits me for 40% of my hp with a hit and 4th, meaning he's doing around 85 and 120 with his 4th... but because i now have strength armor on, fujitora with ~240? magic attack less my passive 86 wis (86 defence) means he's hitting me for around 300 hp weakened. this is 60% of my hp in one hit. there are plenty of other humans with similar or the same int as fuji since it's so easy to train int (faster levelling than dsoma un-arguably) so basically, in int armor i am royally raped by melee. in strength armor i'm disgustingly raped by int. [/quote] There aren't plenty of humans with the same or similar int as fuji. INT levelling isn't faster then devils levelling, it is maybe on par, probably a little slower. But if we don't do str, we are literally 1 hit by devils. I'm 82 str, 450+hp and with hero helm, boots, top and displacer pads, carnage puts me ~10% hp with a 5th and hit. I'm 91+ int and mages hurt like fuck without robes on, if I turn up in robes that's asking to be totally raped by the many archers that are around. It's a catch 22, exactly the same as your situation with coos and fuji. Your using them as an example but do you know Coos str or Fuji's int? What are your stats in comparison to theirs? What level are you and what level are they? What str/int are they at? I know Coo's has been at BLG for a while now so i'm guessing he's one of the strongest str wise humans there is. I thought % yesterday was pretty fair considering numbers that turned up, you may have to mash the pot button more then we do but you can also carry a lot more pots then we can. Monster tanked a fair few humans on middle stone last night before warping 15 seconds before the end of war, so it's not all unbalanced as you think. Just my two cents[/quote]