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Wotw % Discussion and idea
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FOXTRCK |
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#31 2018/07/24 12:43:30 |
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HOGAN |
Adium suggested this in guild chat last night. Dynamic %!
Could there be a system to check how many players are in the conti map, castle map and throne room from each race when the WoTW is on (over level 90+) once its known how many of each race is on the % could then be applied dynamically. This could take in to account that there should (don't quote this) be 3x more humans than devils standard and take in to account the current % drop as a starting point and then adjust up or downwards depending on how many players are on the specific map from each race. Obviously there would be a cap to stop for example Devils just sending 4 players in the throne room who turn in to Soma Gods. Similar to how CTF changes depending on users involved this could be a good way to make it fun even if all DL log on there Devs and everyone else is at the Loom :D
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[quote="HOGAN"]Adium suggested this in guild chat last night. Dynamic %!
Could there be a system to check how many players are in the conti map, castle map and throne room from each race when the WoTW is on (over level 90+) once its known how many of each race is on the % could then be applied dynamically.
This could take in to account that there should (don't quote this) be 3x more humans than devils standard and take in to account the current % drop as a starting point and then adjust up or downwards depending on how many players are on the specific map from each race. Obviously there would be a cap to stop for example Devils just sending 4 players in the throne room who turn in to Soma Gods.
Similar to how CTF changes depending on users involved this could be a good way to make it fun even if all DL log on there Devs and everyone else is at the Loom :D[/quote]
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#32 2018/07/24 13:00:16 |
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ADIUM |
"JET_LI"This guy wont be happy until he has control over all aspects of the server. Isn't it obvious from Subxero's first post why humans don't turn up? I wonder how much longer all the devils would show up if they all got 3 hit, despite being capped with max gear and having a big % benefit? I think the fact hsoma haven't won it for so long shows it's a broken system... which surely can't be a good result for either side?
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[quote="ADIUM"][quote="JET_LI"]This guy wont be happy until he has control over all aspects of the server.
Yes, devils do allot of melee damage.
Yes, humans do allot of magic damage.
User count is far higher on hsoma, yet more devils turn up.
Rather than trying to control the server, get more humans to turn up.
Soma was based around the idea of hsoma usercount being higher, always has been since esoma.
The server, the users and GM's already favour hsoma, we dont need to make it any easier.[/quote]
Isn't it obvious from Subxero's first post why humans don't turn up?
I wonder how much longer all the devils would show up if they all got 3 hit, despite being capped with max gear and having a big % benefit?
I think the fact hsoma haven't won it for so long shows it's a broken system... which surely can't be a good result for either side?[/quote]
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#33 2018/07/24 13:31:45 |
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WIIDEVLAR |
"ADIUM"Isn't it obvious from Subxero's first post why humans don't turn up? strait up subxero's post is wrong(not what the problem actally is)... if u only ever have 5 ppl who sow up then haw on earth are u meant to controll 3 stones so u can win???? this is the real / only problem with wotw. even with haw the % systom the way it is why do u keep IGNORING the fact that u do 3 hit us (i get 1 hit by some of u(and i am capped)) the only "broken system" is the human attitude... stop standing around in town or stop hunting for 2 hours a week and actually show up in numbers and devils wont have conti for weeks / months AS I KEEP SAYING HUMANS HAVE BOUGHT THIS ON THEM SELF BY ABUSING EACH OTHER TO THE POINT NON OF U LIKE / RESPECT EACH OTHER AND REFUSE TO WORK AS A RACE TEAM BUT DEVILS PUT THERE DIFFERENCES TO ONE SIDE ONE NIGHT A WEEK AND WORK AS A RACE.... TRY FIXING THE HUMAN COMMUNITY BEFORE POINTING THE FINGER AT DEVILS DAMAGE AND IGNORING THE FACT UR DAMAGE IS / CAN BE HIGHER THEN DEVILS.... I GET 1 SHOW BY SOME OF U HUMANS AND IM CAPPED WTF THAT ALLABOUT???? user count is there is more humans then devils but wotw turnout looks more like there is more devils then human.... THAT IS NOT A NURFF DEVIL PROBLEM... yes DL may be logging on there devils at wotw naw but my guess is because they are fed up being the only humans there putting in the skill / tactics to actually try and win it. especially when u think non of they actually need chase drops / items anymore.... they did it for everone elce mainly...
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[quote="WIIDEVLAR"][quote="ADIUM"]Isn't it obvious from Subxero's first post why humans don't turn up?
I wonder how much longer all the devils would show up if they all got 3 hit, despite being capped with max gear and having a big % benefit?
I think the fact hsoma haven't won it for so long shows it's a broken system... which surely can't be a good result for either side?[/quote]
strait up subxero's post is wrong(not what the problem actally is)... if u only ever have 5 ppl who sow up then haw on earth are u meant to controll 3 stones so u can win???? this is the real / only problem with wotw.
even with haw the % systom the way it is why do u keep IGNORING the fact that u do 3 hit us (i get 1 hit by some of u(and i am capped))
the only "broken system" is the human attitude... stop standing around in town or stop hunting for 2 hours a week and actually show up in numbers and devils wont have conti for weeks / months
AS I KEEP SAYING HUMANS HAVE BOUGHT THIS ON THEM SELF BY ABUSING EACH OTHER TO THE POINT NON OF U LIKE / RESPECT EACH OTHER AND REFUSE TO WORK AS A RACE TEAM BUT DEVILS PUT THERE DIFFERENCES TO ONE SIDE ONE NIGHT A WEEK AND WORK AS A RACE.... TRY FIXING THE HUMAN COMMUNITY BEFORE POINTING THE FINGER AT DEVILS DAMAGE AND IGNORING THE FACT UR DAMAGE IS / CAN BE HIGHER THEN DEVILS.... I GET 1 SHOW BY SOME OF U HUMANS AND IM CAPPED WTF THAT ALLABOUT????
user count is there is more humans then devils but wotw turnout looks more like there is more devils then human.... THAT IS NOT A NURFF DEVIL PROBLEM...
yes DL may be logging on there devils at wotw naw but my guess is because they are fed up being the only humans there putting in the skill / tactics to actually try and win it. especially when u think non of they actually need chase drops / items anymore.... they did it for everone elce mainly...
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#34 2018/07/24 16:03:23 |
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KEKKET |
Im even for a system that sees how manny of each race turned up and if its to low (givaway) like only 5 players of 1race turn up then the % wont change.
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#35 2018/07/24 16:45:37 |
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ADIUM |
"WIIDEVLAR" strait up subxero's post is wrong(not what the problem actally is)... if u only ever have 5 ppl who sow up then haw on earth are u meant to controll 3 stones so u can win???? this is the real / only problem with wotw. So your argument is not to bother making it balanced between races, but instead blame humans for not showing up anyway? Does that logic not seem nuts to you...? I don't think anyone is arguing that the side with the best numbers and best tactics shouldn't win - but you aren't ever going to get a proper turnout if over half of hsoma (str/dex chars) aren't able to compete...
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[quote="ADIUM"][quote="WIIDEVLAR"] strait up subxero's post is wrong(not what the problem actally is)... if u only ever have 5 ppl who sow up then haw on earth are u meant to controll 3 stones so u can win???? this is the real / only problem with wotw.[/quote]
So your argument is not to bother making it balanced between races, but instead blame humans for not showing up anyway? Does that logic not seem nuts to you...?
I don't think anyone is arguing that the side with the best numbers and best tactics shouldn't win - but you aren't ever going to get a proper turnout if over half of hsoma (str/dex chars) aren't able to compete...
[/quote]
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#36 2018/07/24 17:29:20 |
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STORMHAVEN |
"ADIUM" but you aren't ever going to get a proper turnout if over half of hsoma (str/dex chars) aren't able to compete... They can still help for those humans who can hurt devils, the humans who built their char to be able to hurt them. If you made a melee char and are crying you can't kill a melee devil then you're quite frankly retarded. Think back to esoma, even level 30 chars in the guild were useful because they could weaken, slow, blind for the big hitters. Stop crying you can't take the glory kill, turn up and help the people who can actually hurt them. It ain't rocket science
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[quote="STORMHAVEN"][quote="ADIUM"] but you aren't ever going to get a proper turnout if over half of hsoma (str/dex chars) aren't able to compete...
[/quote]
They can still help for those humans who can hurt devils, the humans who built their char to be able to hurt them.
If you made a melee char and are crying you can't kill a melee devil then you're quite frankly retarded.
Think back to esoma, even level 30 chars in the guild were useful because they could weaken, slow, blind for the big hitters.
Stop crying you can't take the glory kill, turn up and help the people who can actually hurt them. It ain't rocket science
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#37 2018/07/24 17:57:27 |
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FRINGE |
yea, melee need to think more about stoning / weaken / zombie etc
this is coming from a melee player as i cant stand int |
#38 2018/07/24 18:00:54 |
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MANTICORE |
ok i swear to god human soma players are simple minded or they refuse to remember how things were when Shadow's of Cesspool patch hit on live server on which for more than 2months humans reigned supreme on RvR.
During that time devil's complains were instantly dismissed by getting called stop playing bad get wis etc and none of those words came from the players who put the most effort for the humans. Now we come to you Subxero you tried so hard to change the PK system on this game which you finaly did but also you killed Hsoma, since that day there was a massive exit of players and up until this day it hasn't recovered.from it patch will fix it for a while and people will quit again. because of that change. A certain amount of Darklegacy players made devil soma characters and they want the 10% but with the attitude you have do you actually believe they will log to help you and your buddies to win WotW? dont think so here a example.  
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[quote="MANTICORE"]ok i swear to god human soma players are simple minded or they refuse to remember how things were when Shadow's of Cesspool patch hit on live server on which for more than 2months humans reigned supreme on RvR.
During that time devil's complains were instantly dismissed by getting called stop playing bad get wis etc and none of those words came from the players who put the most effort for the humans.
Now we come to you Subxero you tried so hard to change the PK system on this game which you finaly did but also you killed Hsoma, since that day there was a massive exit of players and up until this day it hasn't recovered.from it patch will fix it for a while and people will quit again. because of that change.
A certain amount of Darklegacy players made devil soma characters and they want the 10% but with the attitude you have do you actually believe they will log to help you and your buddies to win WotW? dont think so here a example.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/MliGZOZ.png[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/bZJ5QvZ.png[/img][/quote]
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#39 2018/07/24 18:18:18 |
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WIIDEVLAR |
"ADIUM""WIIDEVLAR" strait up subxero's post is wrong(not what the problem actally is)... if u only ever have 5 ppl who sow up then haw on earth are u meant to controll 3 stones so u can win???? this is the real / only problem with wotw. haw can u say its not balanced between races.... yea i can 2-3 hit humans but i also get 1-3 hit by humans.... or are u just going to KEEP IGNORING that fact???? will makeing it so devs do less damage mean more humans show up??? YES BUT ONLY COS U ALL SEEM TO WANT EASY KILLS AND NEVER TO DIE URSELFS... will makeing it so devs do less damage mean humans stop useing magic??? NO IT WONT AS MAGIC IS MAINLY FOR RvR AND BATTERS THE FK OUT OF ANY DEVIL... (i have 88MD ffs as it is.... humans can heal to 100int (ibleave it caps out there not 100% tho) so even a str/dex (PvP/PvE build NOT RvRbuild) will be afective if they come any use fireball on me (again not a devils problem is u cba to think about RvR and base anything around it) the fact there is enuff of u online to easly win but insted just standing around and not going wotw shows its not a % problem its a atendance problem.... if ur going to build a pure str/dex char then it mean u have not even given RvR set up a single thought while lvling and if u dont take into account RvR then why do u think u got the right to complain and moan ur char is shit at RvR... of corse its going to be shit ur built it to kill other humans and mobs not to kill devils... its simple IF humans actually put a good turn out (like 80%of u) and the problem is u still cant win then maybe look at the % but i have personally seen DL win conti by them self with no bk of from the rest of u its the same reson that DL win most of your GVW's they actually think about what they are going to do and not expect everyone to just fall over dead just cos they showed up. question u really need to answer is....WHY DO U WANT TO BEABLE TO 1-2 HIT DEVILS BUT WE ARE NOT ALOUD TO DO THE SAME????? cos im telling u for the 100th time i get 1 hit by some of u and 2-4 hit by the rest of u who actually thought a little about RvR while lvling (not even useing weaken)
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[quote="WIIDEVLAR"][quote="ADIUM"][quote="WIIDEVLAR"] strait up subxero's post is wrong(not what the problem actally is)... if u only ever have 5 ppl who sow up then haw on earth are u meant to controll 3 stones so u can win???? this is the real / only problem with wotw.[/quote]
So your argument is not to bother making it balanced between races, but instead blame humans for not showing up anyway? Does that logic not seem nuts to you...?
I don't think anyone is arguing that the side with the best numbers and best tactics shouldn't win - but you aren't ever going to get a proper turnout if over half of hsoma (str/dex chars) aren't able to compete...
[/quote]
haw can u say its not balanced between races.... yea i can 2-3 hit humans but i also get 1-3 hit by humans.... or are u just going to KEEP IGNORING that fact????
will makeing it so devs do less damage mean more humans show up??? YES BUT ONLY COS U ALL SEEM TO WANT EASY KILLS AND NEVER TO DIE URSELFS...
will makeing it so devs do less damage mean humans stop useing magic??? NO IT WONT AS MAGIC IS MAINLY FOR RvR AND BATTERS THE FK OUT OF ANY DEVIL... (i have 88MD ffs as it is.... humans can heal to 100int (ibleave it caps out there not 100% tho) so even a str/dex (PvP/PvE build NOT RvRbuild) will be afective if they come any use fireball on me (again not a devils problem is u cba to think about RvR and base anything around it)
the fact there is enuff of u online to easly win but insted just standing around and not going wotw shows its not a % problem its a atendance problem....
if ur going to build a pure str/dex char then it mean u have not even given RvR set up a single thought while lvling and if u dont take into account RvR then why do u think u got the right to complain and moan ur char is shit at RvR... of corse its going to be shit ur built it to kill other humans and mobs not to kill devils...
its simple IF humans actually put a good turn out (like 80%of u) and the problem is u still cant win then maybe look at the % but i have personally seen DL win conti by them self with no bk of from the rest of u its the same reson that DL win most of your GVW's they actually think about what they are going to do and not expect everyone to just fall over dead just cos they showed up.
question u really need to answer is....WHY DO U WANT TO BEABLE TO 1-2 HIT DEVILS BUT WE ARE NOT ALOUD TO DO THE SAME????? cos im telling u for the 100th time i get 1 hit by some of u and 2-4 hit by the rest of u who actually thought a little about RvR while lvling (not even useing weaken) [/quote]
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#40 2018/07/24 18:24:15 |
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SLAYER |
"SUBXERO"So I spoke to a few people about WoTW and I want to stress I KNOW its about numbers/team work etc but there is still an elephant in the room that if you look at it from this point of view it makes a lot of sense. And I think if the % system included this on both sides it would work fine. We all get 1-3 hit by magic, you have more people with zombie, you have way more people in general, you have accuracy gear (most of our dsoma chars don't have/use it and definitely won't at wotw), your weapons are faster as you said...you can therefore interrupt our mages much easier. Attend in equal numbers and it would be fine, attend with the level of numbers hsoma truely has and it's a cake walk. Stop expecting to 1v1 a melee devil, we are built to be much stronger in the field we pick, and pay for it through being stuck with just one weapon, our axers, spears users etc can't pull a bow out for i.e.. You are designed to work as a team, yet your mage damage is way higher than it was on esoma (relative to our melee dmg imo), and trust me you can drop us easier than you could back then, to.
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[quote="SLAYER"][quote="SUBXERO"]So I spoke to a few people about WoTW and I want to stress I KNOW its about numbers/team work etc but there is still an elephant in the room that if you look at it from this point of view it makes a lot of sense. And I think if the % system included this on both sides it would work fine.
Fyi this information is based on a lvl 107 dev archer and subxero
Lvl 107 Archer hits 417-503 with No attack armour just standard armour. Using a 91-123 bow
Take the % system last night sticks it on about 140 str which would brings its melle dmg to 350-436
This is taking into account he % system only effects str/con/wis etc (not dex or wep dmg)
So at 67.5% a dev still hits 350-436 with 200+ dex (by far better than any hsoma archer)
Now sub is a good archer and hits about 337-397 with 144 dex at 100% with very op Hsoma gear bear in mind he does hit faster I agree. So you can see the difference here, imagine a duel is what am saying.
But a human non tank build i.e mage/archer will have around 250 ish DF so you can see how the dmg will still be very high. Even sub last night in +9/10 str rings, fort gear had 367 max DF and PD still took huge dmg from devils. While I hsoma In that gear he would take min dmg from most archers.
So if the % system took into account the f10 dmg AND dex this I think would be about right
If % system took into account f10 and dex it would bring that archer to 281-340 dmg with 150 ish dex which is still good but wont 3 hit most humans. Tbh that is about what most capped hsoma archer are at without op gear. Which after having the conti for the best part of 3-4 months I think is even still a fair fight for the devils.
Just a thought to try and ring it into balance When you look at the math it does make a lot of sense.
PLEASE DO NO TURN THIS INTO A FLAME THREAD, I wanted to look at this from a maths perspective as when you do that you normally see the bigger picture. And this does clear things up for me to understand it a lot more. Constructive discussion only please no hate.
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We all get 1-3 hit by magic, you have more people with zombie, you have way more people in general, you have accuracy gear (most of our dsoma chars don't have/use it and definitely won't at wotw), your weapons are faster as you said...you can therefore interrupt our mages much easier.
Attend in equal numbers and it would be fine, attend with the level of numbers hsoma truely has and it's a cake walk.
Stop expecting to 1v1 a melee devil, we are built to be much stronger in the field we pick, and pay for it through being stuck with just one weapon, our axers, spears users etc can't pull a bow out for i.e.. You are designed to work as a team, yet your mage damage is way higher than it was on esoma (relative to our melee dmg imo), and trust me you can drop us easier than you could back then, to.[/quote]
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#41 2018/07/24 18:51:57 |
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RAVENSOUL |
Can't believe this argument is still rolling on since the two worlds merged all them years ago.
Wake up call to the human race. Devils are the superior race in melee, you are not meant to be able to go toe to toe, 1v1 with a devil. They have higher defence armour to be able to withstand a group of human warriors and deal high damage from there high attack weapons it's how it was meant to be. Humans strength lies in there magic and higher numbers, work as a race is the key, always has been the case. Put aside your differences as humans and work as a race. A few strong human warriors used as tanks, followed up by mages blinding, confuse, slowing, weakening for the more powerfull mages and devils will fall. It worked in the past when humans worked as a race, as a team, it still works now. Put down your egos, put down your guild rivalry, put down the hate some of you have for one another and fight as a race like the devils do. It work in esoma it can work here too.
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[quote="RAVENSOUL"]Can't believe this argument is still rolling on since the two worlds merged all them years ago.
Wake up call to the human race. Devils are the superior race in melee, you are not meant to be able to go toe to toe, 1v1 with a devil. They have higher defence armour to be able to withstand a group of human warriors and deal high damage from there high attack weapons it's how it was meant to be.
Humans strength lies in there magic and higher numbers, work as a race is the key, always has been the case. Put aside your differences as humans and work as a race. A few strong human warriors used as tanks, followed up by mages blinding, confuse, slowing, weakening for the more powerfull mages and devils will fall. It worked in the past when humans worked as a race, as a team, it still works now.
Put down your egos, put down your guild rivalry, put down the hate some of you have for one another and fight as a race like the devils do. It work in esoma it can work here too.
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#42 2018/07/24 20:50:55 |
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SLAYER |
Only thing I would say here, is that on contested maps outside of wotw, the opposing races % needs to be much lower than it is...
It always used to be very low so that when a devil/group of devils or vice versa raid the opposing races map, they can easily pick out individuals, which then makes the whole 'devils need to be stronger due to numbers' point mute. That is the only time/situation I would agree with anything being changed.
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[quote="SLAYER"]Only thing I would say here, is that on contested maps outside of wotw, the opposing races % needs to be much lower than it is...
It always used to be very low so that when a devil/group of devils or vice versa raid the opposing races map, they can easily pick out individuals, which then makes the whole 'devils need to be stronger due to numbers' point mute.
That is the only time/situation I would agree with anything being changed.
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#43 2018/07/24 21:44:09 |
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TYROZET |
slayer the only issue with that is that humans rarely raid there even less likely to do so on a lower percentage, they seem to raid as a guild only
I would take a lower percentage then humans purely to encourage some raiding as there's so much fun to be had here
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[quote="TYROZET"]slayer the only issue with that is that humans rarely raid there even less likely to do so on a lower percentage, they seem to raid as a guild only
I would take a lower percentage then humans purely to encourage some raiding as there's so much fun to be had here [/quote]
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#44 2018/07/24 21:55:09 |
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SLAYER |
"TYROZET"slayer the only issue with that is that humans rarely raid there even less likely to do so on a lower percentage, they seem to raid as a guild only Yeah maybe just nerf our melee further (not theirs), only when raiding on contested maps or any RVR outside of wotw.
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[quote="SLAYER"][quote="TYROZET"]slayer the only issue with that is that humans rarely raid there even less likely to do so on a lower percentage, they seem to raid as a guild only
I would take a lower percentage then humans purely to encourage some raiding as there's so much fun to be had here [/quote]
Yeah maybe just nerf our melee further (not theirs), only when raiding on contested maps or any RVR outside of wotw.[/quote]
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#45 2018/07/24 23:08:01 |
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