The Forum

[quote="FRINGE"]max attack should be about 15% higher for axe 2 handers[/quote]

[quote="JODIARIAS"]Prowler u must also calculate the hits u get in while a axer walks from max range and if ur gd at the game which ur inability to kill mags at 110 may speak for itself they should never get close enough to hit you Just saying bows OP because of range not its dmg[/quote]

[quote="PROWLER"]Since the allegation that bow is OP has been raised again .. here is the list (again) of all the reasons why it specifically is not. Bow is useless against Devils. Bow users cannot go solo killing Magmas for their spoils unless they have elevated another class/trait first. Bow dodge aura is weaker than its counter-parts. All weapons (except bow) were buffed. Therefore bow does less damage than other weapons. Bow durability is lower than counterpart weapons. Bow is the only weapon to lose durability with a “miss”. Bow (Dex build characters) lacks strength. Bow DPS (per se) is the lowest of all weapons. With regards to PvP, the most effective form of attack is with a group. A combination of stone, weaken and blasts of DB “appear” to be the most desirous. How many people died in a 1vs1 PvP battle against a bow (whilst not using a bow themselves)? How many died to other weapons/circumstances? In the world of PvE, a bow allows a character to engage a creature at distance (which is an advantage for sure). The lack of strength, however, slows the kill. Dura rape may be equitable but the lower attack stats of the bow and the lack of strength suggest levelling speed is mitigated. Bow recoil has been nerfed in the 2018 patch [/quote]

[quote="MISERICORD"][quote="MISERICORD"] [b][UPDATED] 17/07/18[/b] This is a response to a question/request posted in Ideas & Suggestions. I thought I'd be better placed to put the results here; hopefully a few people will find it interesting/helpful. The request was to calculate and display the performance of all (current) the top tier weapons v.s. a defender using different gear loadouts. The calculations used the following assumptions: [spoiler]■ Attacker has 200 STR & 200 weapon skill in respective weapon. ■ Attacker is using an untagged variant of weapon - This gives a solid baseline as tag variance is removed. ■ Attacker has +5 str (From bulwark) when equipped with 1h sword/axe ■ Defender has 200 STR and is equipped with a full, untagged Bitter Bone Set. ■ Defender is equipped with untagged Bulwark in the shielded calculations, factoring in the +5 str. ■ Defender has an additional +15 Defence in the Perfect Defence calculations. ■ No accessories or offensive gear (titus pads ect) calculated for either attacker or defender. ■ Skill wise, Sword is presumed to be using 1st and 5th, Bow/Knuckle using 1st and 4th, Spear using 1st and 2nd and Axe using 4th. ■ Offensive skills such as 5th sword, 2nd spear ect have been normalised to equate into a per second value – This is done by calculating the effect of these skills over a minute and dividing the result by 60. [/spoiler] A lot of calculations (a good few pages) have gone into creating this so I'm going to omit them from the thread for obvious reasons. [spoiler][img]https://image.ibb.co/daHzMy/mess.png[/img][/spoiler] Please feel free to ask a question if you want to know about a particular aspect of it. The numbers in the table below are the damage INFLICTED PER SECOND on the defender by the supposed attacker laid out above. There are two attacker and three defender scenarios in the table. ■ [b]ATK1[/b] - 200 STR + Untagged Weapon, NO SKILLS / AURAS ■ [b]ATK2[/b] - 200 STR + Untagged Weapon, WITH SKILLS / AURAS ■ [b]DEF1[/b] - 200 STR + full untagged Bitter Bone Set ■ [b]DEF2[/b] - 200 STR + full untagged Bitter Bone Set + Untagged Fellforged Bulwark ■ [b]DEF3[/b] - 200 STR + full untagged Bitter Bone Set, Untagged Fellforged Bulwark + Perfect Defence [img]https://image.ibb.co/dezkDd/base_Aura.png[/img] Please bare in mind that this is calculated using untagged weapons, so in the skilled section axe 4th is going to skew the DPS in its favour, which would not be the case in heavily upgraded items. [b][UPDATES][/b] ■ Corrected error in minimum PvP damage values. ■ Changed perfect defence from +15% STR as defence to flat +15 defence. ■ Corrected error in 2nd Spear statistics. ■ Corrected error in 4th Knuckle statistics. ■ Full Recalc using the above values. A big thanks to QIANG for providing info for the above corrections. [b]I will be re-running all of the above calculations in the next few days using Tagged weapon statistics and using the average +5 ToE rolls for each weapon. Once that's complete, I may then start factoring in accessories and armours upgraded with fort plates ect.[/b] [/quote] Spoiler alert: i didnt re-run the calculations. Wont shift things about massivley as tag improvement is a % thus affects every weapon equally as does a % recoil improvement. [/quote]

[quote="LUPISCUS"] @ jac true..but the hi dex / low str build is a choice that u kno the consequences of[/quote]

[quote="SPELUNK"][quote="LUPISCUS"] @ jac true..but the hi dex / low str build is a choice that u kno the consequences of[/quote] Also there are similar trade offs for all types. Pure axe/spear is bascially useless in PvP also. I'd argue sword also doesn't have enough dex to be useful.[/quote]

[quote="JARAGOONDOO"][quote="PROWLER"]Jara, I didn't do the DPS comparisons - someone else did (might have been Qiang?). I thought it was a very good exercise. I get your point about the tags but, surely, the ratios stay they same (ie. tagged axe vs tagged bow)? /Prowler[/quote] Found it [url=https://myth-of-soma.com/Forum/Thread.asp?ID=23213&title=Weapon+Effectiveness+%26+DPS+Comparison&Page=1#post148963]here[/url]. Good stuff. Very informative. But sadly not very useful because it's only untagged weapons. Epic-Intense upgraded weapons things will change a lot. The ranking will stay the same, but the relative DPS of each weapon will change drastically. To answer your question, though, no. The ratios do not stay the same. The ratios are actually much more closer the further up the tag goes. What I mean by that is, the gap (the "ratio") between bow and knuckles DPS become smaller the further the tag goes up. The gap seems massive for untagged weapons, but the gap between Intense equivalents will be smaller (but the ranking will stay the same). The reason for that is what I said previously. Attack from weapons get multiplied by skill multipliers. Defense does not get multiplied at all (WYSIWYG). This results in all the weapons slowly getting normalized damage the further you push the damage up. You'd need to increase defense on armours AT LEAST twice as much for the ratios to stay the same/similar. [/quote]

[quote="DIOS"]So can we agree the axe need more attack? [/quote]

[quote="LUPISCUS"]if 5th is nerfed to 3-4 seconds ye[/quote]

[quote="PROWLER"]Misericord, Awesome, thank you. Apologies for not recalling it was you. Lupi, Yes I do know the consequences and I agree 100% with your statement. The problem arises (for any bow user) when bow gets nerfed again AFTER the character build. That would be inequitable most especially since bow is the least damning of all the weapons. Spelunk, Yes there are trade offs. We all (or should) consider them when we choose our path. Dios, No. Increasing axe attack is akin to nerfing everything else (including bow which has already been beaten to a pulp). I’d agree if bow attack was increased too but that is just as inequitable and selfish – isn’t it? Jara, I take your point. I am delighted, however, that the discrepancy with bow apparently narrows with better tags. Still, as you indicate it would still remain at the bottom, people who are anti-bow should not be alarmed. 8) /Prowler[/quote]

[quote="LUPISCUS"]thing is.... every / almost human player has or is a bow user..myself included. You kno how things are.. you have to adjust and try ur best to make advantages of other weps too. Ya cant do 120 levs of bow and moan u aint got much str. Well you can... but .. you cant expect sympathy ( gettya fookin axe out ;p )[/quote]

[quote="MERLIN"]This + the fact that bow is supposedly uber nerfed yet 99% of humans have it as their main weap......?[/quote]

[quote="FLAWLESS"]Sword knuckle and spear all had their attack increased because hsoma for a large period of time was just axe/bow or axe/staff (and still is) and the GM’s wanted variation on builds for levelling and pvp. Mauler is fine as is.[/quote]

[quote="MERLIN"]for levelling the stats on other weaps are irrelevant while bow/axe give best gains[/quote]

[quote="DIOS"]Merlin is spot on, for best stats it will always be bow/axe and everything else will be picked for PVP. [/quote]