The Forum

[quote="PROTEUZ"]I think the recent surge in bot use has a lot to do with the demographic of Soma. A large portion of players here seem to be from Esoma. We were kids when we played Esoma, now we're adults with jobs and families. Soma is a very demanding game, you have to put a good few hundred hours into the game before you can take part in any of the events. People just don't have time for that anymore, but they still want to play and enjoy the game. It is catch 22. If there was a magic wand you could use right now to remove all botters/afkers/multis there literally would be a handful of people playing, maybe not even that. This is not because people want to cheat, they just want to make it easier to take part in the game. You can probably put a lot of effort into banning bot users, but if your vision is the longevity of the game I don't think its the right choice. However you can enforce rules on people that bot, such as you have, like NEVER being AFK. At least in the current climate, this has worked and the game seems active and no one is putting a ton of effort into hiding. [/quote]

[quote="TURKLETON"]So what's the word on the following set up: Healer account on 1 PC using click lock to hold down RMB 2 account on main different PC hunting 2 toons alt tabbing between the 2 every few seconds. I can't see how anything could be wrong with this set-up but I would like to make sure (it takes it over the 2 account thing but is still all user input). The thing I would have questioned would have been the healer but based on previous messages seems that one is fine. Please let me know, thanks.[/quote]

[quote="KEKKET"]Im sure the team wont be aiming the casual player. Only when u keep abusing.[/quote]

[quote="MARTIGAN"]i feel soma is much more fun with many client at same time is like micro manage (?) healer tank guy you lvl annoying when change wrong window and die lol or enemy attack all but told ok only with 2 char if outside town if i understand correct :D dream they could be control on same screen so awesome [/quote]

[quote="_SEPHIROTH_"]Highlighting the lack of a [b]moral[/b] distinction between botting and multing is correct but irrelevant. The problem with botting is the undeniably strong temptation, when everything is automated, to leave your character AFK whilst going for a drink or a quick piss. During this time unlike a multi your character is no longer a player, it's an NPC. The only difference between your character an a town guard is the code driving you. The point of an online game is bled out when you cant interact with other 'players'. Not hating on anyone here, like i said. Morally I think multing and botting is the same but I can also understand why Isylver/Ghost might want to take such a hardline with bots when you consider the consequences to the server if everyone is using them. Too many people would take that next step from chancing a quick piss to chancing 2-3 hours at 2am.[/quote]

[quote="PROTEUZ"][quote="_SEPHIROTH_"] Too many people would take that next step from chancing a quick piss to chancing 2-3 hours at 2am.[/quote] True, but where do pilots fit into this? And surely, regardless of it is a person playing the char or a bot, if it is not the owner, then it is really the same deal because the char is acting without the owner being there. A person or a bot, whatever it does or says it is simply someone's char getting lvled without them being there. [/quote]

[quote="PROTEUZ"][quote="ISYLVER"] This is a broken record. Multi's/Pilots etc are not policeable there's so many varying factors. Do we like the fact it happens? No. Could we waste countless hours trying to police it? Yes. Ultimately, Ghostlord is now in charge of the bans/disciplines etc but one thing I will say is that it is literally impossible to police pilots and multi's. The discussion on multi's will be made clearer today by Ghostlord.. Do not raise it again until then. [/quote] Fair enough, in relation to bots(not talking of multis but the wider topic), you have the option of policing them. If you ban bots completely, you're shifting the problem to a place where you can't police it with guidelines and rules as you have just said. [/quote]

[quote="GHOSTLORD"]The normal healer - player setup is fine. As long as no bots are used and if noone goes afk. Below you will find the part about multiple people on one account. It's a bit shorter than I had imagined but it should cover all. Q: Am I allowed to let other people on my account? A: Yes, however you are doing so at your own risk. - If the other person breaks the rules on your character, it may be banned. - If the other person decides he likes your items, we will not return them. - If you lose control of your account, it is your responsibility. Q: Why are people allowed to have multiple people lvling their character? A: It is practically impossible to enforce a no-multi rule and it brings a lot of risks. Q: Why is a bot worse than sharing your account? A: Someone who uses a bot he or she can do so on multiple characters at once on one PC and this brings little to no risk other than recieving bans. When I am happy with the concepts I will add it to the first page and clean up this thread if required. *edit* We are not planning on changing the rules at this point. (sophisticated) bots are illegal. Tools are legal. Sharing your account is your own risk.[/quote]

[quote="JAHEIRA"]Make it a harder decision to multi or pilot disabling the option to change passwords or recall accounts Let it all go though a actual person if you need to change pass ? (Understand this is more workload for the Gms. But the delay will help with repeat offenses) Some one requests to change password, bann the account until you get time to review the accounts activity, if it'd obviously that a pilot is being used add on a bann to the account[/quote]

[quote="_SEPHIROTH_"][quote="PROTEUZ"]A person or a bot, whatever it does or says it is simply someone's char getting lvled without them being there.[/quote] My original post is my response to this, your still saying it's morally the same and is therefore justified, I'm saying your correct it's morally the same but it's still irrelevant. It's possible to police one and impossible to police the other. [/quote]

[quote="PROTEUZ"][quote="_SEPHIROTH_"][quote="PROTEUZ"]A person or a bot, whatever it does or says it is simply someone's char getting lvled without them being there.[/quote] My original post is my response to this, your still saying it's morally the same and is therefore justified, I'm saying your correct it's morally the same but it's still irrelevant. It's possible to police one and impossible to police the other. [/quote] Fine, however I don't believe you're thinking ahead and I don't think the action being taken today will have any positive effect on the game. There isn't really a problem to begin with, bots are encouraging people with low amounts of available time to play more and as long as they are at their PC I don't see any negative problems for the game's health, only positives. For me personally, I have to work about 15 hours a day to earn a living from home, I won't be able to play and write at the same time, but with a bot I can enjoy leveling with a screen next to me and interact with the game while I work. I think you're going to find that in the long run this will waste people's time, GM's time, lower usercount, create less enjoyment for those who want to play and breed more negativity as people get annoyed by friends and their chars being banned constantly, it will be unlikely that people "learn" form their bans except on how to not get caught next time as the banning chars creates more need for bots. Some people just don't have a choice, either they bot while working or they don't play at all. If the rules for bots could be enforced right this instant then I know of atleast 50 people(I'm actually being modest here, it is more than 50) who have asked me for or currently own a bot, minimum of 50. If you're honest, you wouldn't want 50 player instantly removed from the game. Finally, bots can be hidden, people will start hiding who they are. The fruitless endeavour of whack-a-mole will begin shortly and bots will just keep on re-emerging with more and more anti-detection coded in. I don't see bots being banned consistently unless some dumbass goes AFK and leaves it on. I'm going to leave it at that, I have these eerie feeling that taking part in this "open discussion" is going to get me banned and to be quite honest, I'm just here to have fun and play. I'll try not to sneeze or look away for a second while I have click lock on while I get traced and bot checked 5 times a day.[/quote]

[quote="_SEPHIROTH_"][quote="PROTEUZ"]Fine, however I don't believe you're thinking ahead.[/quote] I am, Ghostlord is trying to establish rules here, something the community has been begging for since the early days. If he makes a rule stating bots are now completely ok, the community will basically become a developer team for the bot. The bots will get better and better and be completely openly discussed and theorized on fourms. As you conceded earlier, the temptation to leave your character AFK while botting is just too strong, everyone will chance it to some degree and then get more confident with it, there's safety in numbers. I think if Ghostlord sets this precedent, eventually you'll no longer be able to refer to Soma as an online game when most the 'population' is just player owned NPCs that you can no more interact with than a town guard or a spider. This is me thinking ahead.[/quote]

[quote="CHRONOS"][quote="_SEPHIROTH_"][quote="PROTEUZ"]Fine, however I don't believe you're thinking ahead.[/quote] I am, Ghostlord is trying to establish rules here, something the community has been begging for since the early days. [/quote] We have had rules its just they have changed around 3 times ... [/quote]

[quote="ELRIC"]If you were to implement an automated verification request for change of ip address on an account this would make it a little more difficult for multis/pilots using the same accounts. For example if new ip tries to log onto account the account is suspended until a code is inserted. The code can be automatically generated and sent to the original e-mail address for the account. If this could be put in place it would mean that unless the owner of the char was happy to give access to his/her e-mail account out to other people then the multis/pilots could not play until they received the code from the owner of the char. Which could take a while if the owner is at work or asleep making it a little more inconvenient for them to prosper. Other games use this form of protection against multiple users on account. It will not stop it but it will be easier to monitor the use of accounts and see which accounts are consistently having multiple ip changes in the course of a day.[/quote]