The Forum

[quote="BIGBERT"]In the real world, the speeds of the various weapons are (fastest to slowest): Knuckle 1-handed sword (slowed if carrying a shield) 1-handed axe (slowed if carrying a shield) Spear 2-handed sword 2-handed axe Bow Crossbow Speed does not automatically relate to increased damage, with things like skill, weapon weight and design and user’s strength being important factors. Interestingly, apart from being able to repeatedly draw and fire a bow and to cock and load a crossbow, strength has no effect on arrow damage at all…. Damage: In the real world, the damage per strike of the various weapons would be (most to least): 2-handed axe 2-handed sword Spear 1-handed axe 1-handed sword Crossbow Bow Knuckle Knuckle: A trained boxer can throw 100 punches a minute, this equates to a 1.6 punches per second, or a Soma recoil of 625. The ability to keep this rate up depends on stamina, strength and training and cannot be maintained over very long periods before fatigue intervenes. So punching (knuckle) is a burst damage weapon in the real world. A close-in range 1 weapon, much of it’s damage is reliant on the strength of the user and the weight of the weapon Bow/crossbow: In the real world, a trained longbow archer can fire 10 arrows per minute, that’s one arrow every 6 seconds; a crossbow is very much much slower. In soma terms that equates to a Soma recoil of 6000! As distance increases arrow power at target decreases, as too does accuracy. It should be noted that – in the real world – arrows could only seldomly penetrate plate armour at all….. I didn’t bother to do a detailed look at each weapon type at this point, but it is clear that there is a need to relook at soma weapons, both in terms of damage and speed. Some basis ideas are given below for thoughts: Attack range – real world comparisons: 1-handed sword, 1-handed axe and knuckle are close in weapons – soma range 1 2-handed swords and 2-handed axes have greater reach – should be soma range 2 Spears have significantly greater killing reach than 2-handed weapons – should be soma range 3 Bows have long killing reach - should be soma range 7 Crossbows have more power than bows – should be soma range 8 Damage from bows/crossbows should ignore strength for attack. This could be a quick fix to current bows issue !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Damage from bows/crossbows should be adjusted as follows: Range 1 – 75% Range 2 – 85% Range 3 – 95% Range 4 – 100% Range 5 – 85% Range 6 – 65% Range 7 – 45% Range 8 – 40% Accuracy should additionally follow a similar pattern Range 1 – -15% Range 2 – -10% Range 3 – -5% Range 4 – 0% Range 5 – -5% Range 6 – -10% Range 7 – -25% Range 8 – -25% Attack: Attack (excluding bows) should be a function of weapon speed (reducing dps for increasing speed), weapon weight, weapon skill, strength and base weapon stats. Attack could reduce over time of continuing hitting due to fatigue. recovering with a short pause – dictated by con……. Weapon speed should be capped for each weapon type. 2-handed axe - 700 2-handed sword - 675 Spear - 720 1-handed axe - 625 1-handed sword - 600 Crossbow - 850 Bow - 800 Knuckle - 500 [/quote]

[quote="LUP2SCUS"]firstly...all sensible stuff , well thought out and probably needed will mean a weapon wipe of everything that people are currently using ( imagine the reactions ! ) also massive change to wep values/crafting etc .. including weight variations might be a much for Fin to sort out, tho the idea is sound.. would be easier to get all this sorted and implement it into a server rewind ..tho Isylver doesn't seem keen on this idea.. however, some big changes..sometime, would be very welcome[/quote]

[quote="OLM"]A spear/lance would do the most damage irl along with a sword used to stab (not slash), Axes and long swords were both side arms due to spear being first choice for any medieval soldier, they looked flashy but were only ever really used for duels and brawls in pubs/taverns/markets. The lance/spear was king of the battlefield from the beginning of tool use. Arrows are great against a poorly equipped foot soldier but useless against the more plated knights. A knuckle would of been a death sentence in any period of time lol![/quote]

[quote="BIGBERT"]@OLM fair enough. I just wanted to start people thinking and discussing. I liked the fact that bow attack is totally independent of strength -apart from being able to draw a powerful bow. Removal of the str element - even if just from val weapons - and maybe some additional att reduction against plate armours, might be a quick fix to the bow probs atm....[/quote]

[quote="FOXTRCK"]So if modifying the max/min hit rates and reducing recoils (in general but also bow) - makes bow much less of a issue (as it should and also stop the reactionary buffing to mage spells). Then I think you have carte blanche on doing a lot more, as your alluding to with weapons. I actually quite like the implication of stamina being reduced per swing or at least the moment your flagged as in combat because stamina is what people need to run away... ;D. Maybe people will succumb to the idea of needing stamina food as well as serums and HP potions. I also do believe there's room for varying degrees of success with attacks so you definitely could for instance go from 'Miss' - 'Glancing' to 'Hit' - to 'Clean' - to 'Critical'. Maybe even getting those hits rendered on the client. I'd then maybe go a step further and suggest mixing up the type of hits to create uniqueness between weapons, if that's possible. I do think that unlike other weapons, Knuckle should be able to get to a much higher proportionate speed than other weapons but it should also be much lower damage than it is now. Just as I expect bow needs to suffer with damage-over-distance (last I knew, Fin said he couldnt do it but that was a over a year ago I think) or just a permanent 10-20% damage reduction in general at all tiers but the idea of modifying bow to just have a different kind of way of causing damage( a different calculation ) is an interesting one. Some good ideas Micky. [/quote]

[quote="BIGBERT"]for bows, you could have the occasional "head shot" for an instant kill, or a leg shot to prevent running for a set period as examples. Spear - "impale" to prevent movement until the next spear attack pulls it out of you and frees you to move. For all weapons, loss of stamina and maybe also loss of run at say 40% health - the possibilities are huge[/quote]

[quote="FOXTRCK"]Sorry Micky, I think I misunderstood your original post and I've almost derailed it by talking generally. Yes, I think having a different calculation would be really interesting for damage but also how things like Stamina usage would really spin things around. Lets say you calculate free weight % of the players max weight and get the value. Say 23% free of max weight, you could then assume the player is "encumbered" - running = depletes stamina at 2.5x the rate but also slows down recoil whilst making successful hits slightly more damaging. (A cost for being 'well stocked'). Same as though you said that spears were really damaging with certain success hits (lets call them thrusts), they're faster but much less likely to hit. Kind of thing. [/quote]

[quote="LUP2SCUS"]without being rude.... 20 yr old game .. isn't overthinking things with rl physics is a bit ott ? when you bring in magic and staffs etc... where's the rl stuff gonna come in there? no offence meant x[/quote]

[quote="FOXTRCK"]Many games create mechanics for having too much weight and take into account other factors Lupi, it might be a 20 year old game but I can assure you many games do the same and far more - even if it's hidden away. As for Staves there's such a thing as mis-casting and other things could be brought in. Besides which, the only thing some people will care about is the damage but other people might care for the smaller details, giving people the option one or another, may not be a bad thing, eh? [/quote]

[quote="LUP2SCUS"]go for it Fox.... i'm no expert about such things.. just giving an average joe's opinion... all/any changes can only be a good thing x[/quote]

[quote="RAVENSOUL"]When I made that post ages back about bow + arrow on how the further the arrow flight the weaker it gets I thought am I going to far soma is just a game after all. During the talk about reducing the damage further away came around. MickyC absolutely enjoyed your post, I had been thinking how we can get away from this myth of bows and make players want to use axe, to use spear, and as a swordie to use sword once again. You make a brilliant point regarding the punching as a knuckle wouldn’t be able to sustain that burst continues it would weaken the longer the battle continues. Which makes me think stamina should be looked at to contribute more towards the damage output. If your running into battle your stamina has been depleted so you wouldn’t hit your max damage until it had recovered from your initial run to the fight. I guess it’s why the Romans are always shown to walking in columns while the enemy is shown running and end up slaughter. The recoils look good that you posted but I think just need a tweak here and there personally.[/quote]

[quote="FOXTRCK"]I think the accuracy of bows depleting the further it is would be a great alternative if damage reduction over range can't be implemented. I don't know if both would be required after fixing max evasion/hit & recoil overall but either might be nicer than a overall damage reduction the weapon class itself. You'd then be able to free up and evaluate if Crossbows are properly proportionate to bows or if they need work.[/quote]

[quote="LUP2SCUS"]assuming that maybe, changes of this type were implemented..and i'm all for it... : the current weps would have to be wiped..meaning that all current players of all levels would be left weaponless.. weps in stashes would have to be wiped, and unupgraded ones in stashes would need to be replaced with new stat ones is this feasible? or what would u think to server wipe and a restart some serious shit to be considered if there wasn't a wipe [/quote]

[quote="RAVENSOUL"]Lupi the game has records of every single item in game. Each time you upgrade an item a new record is created meaning if you have an intense stinger say, and upgrade it from 0 to +8 every +1 it’s upgraded creates a new record (log) in the database. The gms could just restore every weapon back to its original state, if they brought in a recoil cap on weapons all that would do is any recoils under the cap would just revert to the new recoil cap. Nobody would lose any weapons, yes there would be some unhappy players, but the recoil of weapons is beyond a joke it’s ruined soma.[/quote]

[quote="LUP2SCUS"]oh ok .[/quote]