| Author | Content | Date |
|---|---|---|
|
TRAPPER |
To me 90-100 seems logically correct, we just need to get over that 90 before I feel that balance is correct. Another increase maybe needs adding? Maybe more monsters between eb and warthog ?
|
#76 2015/05/08 12:26:39 |
|
KEKKET |
If anything needs changing on dsoma i would say its drops. As for now there is no axer/spear user hit lvl 100 yet. Saying ppl do close to min dmg only applys for gene and that is with full defence gear on (he is a tank).
|
#77 2015/05/08 13:01:00 |
|
TED |
"GHOSTLORD""TED" Not 100% sure really Ghost, I mean I think we just need to remember what changes were made that affected archers in a big way....Con/str change, dex being capped at 200 and dodge % reduced (all this is unique to this server (verses original server)). I think we are getting to a point now where other classes have caught up and perhaps some of these things need revisiting. I don't know what the best solution is but there's all the possibilities that have been mentioned or a combination of them i.e. Raised dex cap Make Con attack Make Con defence Raise dodge% inline with knuckle I don't think it needs a drastic boost, but making con defence as it used to be would be good IMO Let us not forget that not only have axers had their aura put back to A+ speed (which I agree with), there PD raised in % and str made defence (I'm not saying they don't warrant some of these changes but all of them combined may be OP when combined with new mobs). Sword users I wouldn't say are massively OP but when new mobs were added in giving them the chance to gain an additional 30ish str by the time they reach lvl 100 gives them quite a boost both in terms of 5th sword and the added 30 def. No one has answered my point on what Isy said regarding CON being used for HP...what happened there? it seems like archers have been penalised in numerous ways and nothing been done to address the issues that it has caused/is causing.
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="TED"][quote="GHOSTLORD"][quote="TED"]
You guys are a funny bunch...it's just odd how people like to maintain their unfair advantages, as if it's the only thing they hold dear in life. That isn't a dig at anyone in particular, I just think for the longevity of such a game, we should all want balance. The fact that archers all say they can't be bothered anymore as it seems pointless should say enough. When axers cried this they were all supported.[/quote]
Dex cannot be as easily be fixed as the STR cap was.
What type of balance are you talking about? Rock paper scissors (class X is stronger than clas Y but class Z kills X). or complete balance (everyone is just as strong). Also keep in mind we want a group balance preferably over a 1v1 balance.
Also for the longevity of the game we have to look passed lvl 100. This thread is only useful pre-lvl 100.
I do like discussions too and I think you guys are making some nice posts.
Also from a GM perspective I agree that archers have been the best character up till the new mobs as well as the fact that archers are stronger (1v1 - a form of balance hardest to achieve) pre lvl 90. This is simply due to armor playing a dominant role in defence up to 120+ STR. After that the def from STR gets to gain ground on STR users and therefor the damage of archers goes down. And of course DEX is one of the strongest stats.[/quote]
Not 100% sure really Ghost, I mean I think we just need to remember what changes were made that affected archers in a big way....Con/str change, dex being capped at 200 and dodge % reduced (all this is unique to this server (verses original server)).
I think we are getting to a point now where other classes have caught up and perhaps some of these things need revisiting. I don't know what the best solution is but there's all the possibilities that have been mentioned or a combination of them i.e.
Raised dex cap
Make Con attack
Make Con defence
Raise dodge% inline with knuckle
I don't think it needs a drastic boost, but making con defence as it used to be would be good IMO
Let us not forget that not only have axers had their aura put back to A+ speed (which I agree with), there PD raised in % and str made defence (I'm not saying they don't warrant some of these changes but all of them combined may be OP when combined with new mobs). Sword users I wouldn't say are massively OP but when new mobs were added in giving them the chance to gain an additional 30ish str by the time they reach lvl 100 gives them quite a boost both in terms of 5th sword and the added 30 def.
No one has answered my point on what Isy said regarding CON being used for HP...what happened there? it seems like archers have been penalised in numerous ways and nothing been done to address the issues that it has caused/is causing.
[/quote]
|
#78 2015/05/08 14:26:38 |
|
S0RCERER |
"TED"Not 100% sure really Ghost, I mean I think we just need to remember what changes were made that affected archers in a big way....Con/str change, dex being capped at 200 and dodge % reduced (all this is unique to this server (verses original server)). • DEX on the original server was softcapped at 200 and hardcapped at 215 after 216 it resets to 0, just like WIS. • Making CON attack would make Archer's the highest attack class ingame. • Making CON defence would make Archer's the highest defence class ingame. • Only Mages and Archers have higher CON than their STR as such it would be a nerf to all other classes. • I have no problem with buffing Archer's dodge inline with Knuckle, they're both unhittable anyway. • 4th Axe aura is not A+ speed, it is 780 recoil. A+ speed is 720 recoil. • Archers have not been penalised, they have been brought inline with other classes.
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="S0RCERER"][quote="TED"]Not 100% sure really Ghost, I mean I think we just need to remember what changes were made that affected archers in a big way....Con/str change, dex being capped at 200 and dodge % reduced (all this is unique to this server (verses original server)).
I think we are getting to a point now where other classes have caught up and perhaps some of these things need revisiting. I don't know what the best solution is but there's all the possibilities that have been mentioned or a combination of them i.e.
Raised dex cap
Make Con attack
Make Con defence
Raise dodge% inline with knuckle
I don't think it needs a drastic boost, but making con defence as it used to be would be good IMO
Let us not forget that not only have axers had their aura put back to A+ speed (which I agree with), there PD raised in % and str made defence (I'm not saying they don't warrant some of these changes but all of them combined may be OP when combined with new mobs). Sword users I wouldn't say are massively OP but when new mobs were added in giving them the chance to gain an additional 30ish str by the time they reach lvl 100 gives them quite a boost both in terms of 5th sword and the added 30 def.
No one has answered my point on what Isy said regarding CON being used for HP...what happened there? it seems like archers have been penalised in numerous ways and nothing been done to address the issues that it has caused/is causing.[/quote]
• DEX on the original server was softcapped at 200 and hardcapped at 215 after 216 it resets to 0, just like WIS.
• Making CON attack would make Archer's the highest attack class ingame.
• Making CON defence would make Archer's the highest defence class ingame.
• Only Mages and Archers have higher CON than their STR as such it would be a nerf to all other classes.
• I have no problem with buffing Archer's dodge inline with Knuckle, they're both unhittable anyway.
• 4th Axe aura is not A+ speed, it is 780 recoil. A+ speed is 720 recoil.
• Archers have not been penalised, they have been brought inline with other classes.[/quote]
|
#79 2015/05/08 16:53:02 |
|
OPENTHEDOOR |
People seem to forget bow has range and a very good attacking aura.
|
#80 2015/05/08 17:13:53 |
|
SECRET |
I really don't see where this is a problem at all.
Archers have range, name one archer that sits and takes damage, even on hsoma , someone has a fast weapon that is range one , they don't sit and take that damage, its stupid. The only reason you all want archers buffed is because of Genefuser. End Of.
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="SECRET"]I really don't see where this is a problem at all.
Archers have range, name one archer that sits and takes damage, even on hsoma , someone has a fast weapon that is range one , they don't sit and take that damage, its stupid.
The only reason you all want archers buffed is because of Genefuser.
End Of.[/quote]
|
#81 2015/05/08 17:40:53 |
|
TED |
"S0RCERER""TED"Not 100% sure really Ghost, I mean I think we just need to remember what changes were made that affected archers in a big way....Con/str change, dex being capped at 200 and dodge % reduced (all this is unique to this server (verses original server)). That's still past 200 No it wouldn't? I didn't realise bows have the same attack as spear, sword and axe? oh right yes we all punch each other.... Must of changed that!(sarcasm btw). And before you say it, no I'm not suggesting bow should have the same attack as those weapons at all, you just seem to be glossing over that fact. Speed of attack also needs to be factored in, yes as does range. As it was intended, although you are making out as though I propose all these changes should be made. What's the harm with being the highest defence if you can't hit them as you say? obviously saying you can't hit them is also bullshit else you wouldn't mind their defence being raised. The hit rate on this server is far better than on original server, again something you gloss over. Obviously, although who's to say the change can't be made to affect individual classes in order to bring about more balance? I.e. give archer their con as defence but leave str as attack and defence for other classes. Either way it was re buffed after complaints (rightly so), that was the point I was making, which is pretty clear (again read between the lines). If you say so. We are going round in circles here. No response to con being used for HP as Isylver proposed? Riiiight. I don't know whether you are being pedantic for the sake of trying to look clever or because you genuinely need things pointing out in a more obvious way.
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="TED"][quote="S0RCERER"][quote="TED"]Not 100% sure really Ghost, I mean I think we just need to remember what changes were made that affected archers in a big way....Con/str change, dex being capped at 200 and dodge % reduced (all this is unique to this server (verses original server)).
I think we are getting to a point now where other classes have caught up and perhaps some of these things need revisiting. I don't know what the best solution is but there's all the possibilities that have been mentioned or a combination of them i.e.
Raised dex cap
Make Con attack
Make Con defence
Raise dodge% inline with knuckle
I don't think it needs a drastic boost, but making con defence as it used to be would be good IMO
Let us not forget that not only have axers had their aura put back to A+ speed (which I agree with), there PD raised in % and str made defence (I'm not saying they don't warrant some of these changes but all of them combined may be OP when combined with new mobs). Sword users I wouldn't say are massively OP but when new mobs were added in giving them the chance to gain an additional 30ish str by the time they reach lvl 100 gives them quite a boost both in terms of 5th sword and the added 30 def.
No one has answered my point on what Isy said regarding CON being used for HP...what happened there? it seems like archers have been penalised in numerous ways and nothing been done to address the issues that it has caused/is causing.[/quote]
• DEX on the original server was softcapped at 200 and hardcapped at 215 after 216 it resets to 0, just like WIS.
• Making CON attack would make Archer's the highest attack class ingame.
• Making CON defence would make Archer's the highest defence class ingame.
• Only Mages and Archers have higher CON than their STR as such it would be a nerf to all other classes.
• I have no problem with buffing Archer's dodge inline with Knuckle, they're both unhittable anyway.
• 4th Axe aura is not A+ speed, it is 780 recoil. A+ speed is 720 recoil.
• Archers have not been penalised, they have been brought inline with other classes.[/quote]
That's still past 200
No it wouldn't? I didn't realise bows have the same attack as spear, sword and axe? oh right yes we all punch each other.... Must of changed that!(sarcasm btw). And before you say it, no I'm not suggesting bow should have the same attack as those weapons at all, you just seem to be glossing over that fact. Speed of attack also needs to be factored in, yes as does range.
As it was intended, although you are making out as though I propose all these changes should be made. What's the harm with being the highest defence if you can't hit them as you say? obviously saying you can't hit them is also bullshit else you wouldn't mind their defence being raised. The hit rate on this server is far better than on original server, again something you gloss over.
Obviously, although who's to say the change can't be made to affect individual classes in order to bring about more balance? I.e. give archer their con as defence but leave str as attack and defence for other classes.
Either way it was re buffed after complaints (rightly so), that was the point I was making, which is pretty clear (again read between the lines).
If you say so. We are going round in circles here.
No response to con being used for HP as Isylver proposed? Riiiight.
I don't know whether you are being pedantic for the sake of trying to look clever or because you genuinely need things pointing out in a more obvious way.[/quote]
|
#82 2015/05/08 20:56:06 |
|
S0RCERER |
Let's address some absolute facts that you seem to be downplaying:
1) Archers have the range advantage 2) Archers have the highest accuracy of all classes 3) Archers have the highest evasion of all classes What you are proposing is to increase their defence (by changing def to con) which will in turn give them the highest defence of all classes. You keep saying Con should be addressed to contribute to HP, which would make Archers also have the highest HP of all classes. A class which already has the lowest intake of damage as they can literally kite you. When you do get close, you can't hit them. And now wants to also take the lowest damage when someone does land a blow. Gotcha. Is there any downside you'd be willing to accept? It's quite evident who chose to play archer just to be a god, rather than another player. FYI Archers were never meant to have such high defence, on the character creation screen that role goes to Axe and Spear, just so happens that the game was not finished when it was launched and went live with such errors. This server has done a lot to address the imbalance and am happy to say that albeit still not quite there, it's a country mile better than it used to be. WOTW is still Myth of Archers, but Dsoma PvP has shifted away from Archer-rule. It's about damn time too.
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="S0RCERER"]Let's address some absolute facts that you seem to be downplaying:
1) Archers have the range advantage
2) Archers have the highest accuracy of all classes
3) Archers have the highest evasion of all classes
What you are proposing is to increase their defence (by changing def to con) which will in turn give them the highest defence of all classes.
You keep saying Con should be addressed to contribute to HP, which would make Archers also have the highest HP of all classes.
A class which already has the lowest intake of damage as they can literally kite you.
When you do get close, you can't hit them.
And now wants to also take the lowest damage when someone does land a blow.
Gotcha.
Is there any downside you'd be willing to accept?
It's quite evident who chose to play archer just to be a god, rather than another player.
FYI Archers were never meant to have such high defence, on the character creation screen that role goes to Axe and Spear, just so happens that the game was not finished when it was launched and went live with such errors. This server has done a lot to address the imbalance and am happy to say that albeit still not quite there, it's a country mile better than it used to be.
WOTW is still Myth of Archers, but Dsoma PvP has shifted away from Archer-rule.
It's about damn time too.[/quote]
|
#83 2015/05/08 21:19:22 |
|
TED |
"S0RCERER"Let's address some absolute facts that you seem to be downplaying: You are boring me now because you can't seem to read (sorry but I can't put it any other way). But I do stand by saying that yes making CON defence for archers again is an option, when you consider the other changes made (adding a mob which makes much higher str possible), stop trying to isolate individual aspects of a character/game because you can't do that, things need to be looked at as the sum of it's parts, not the parts themselves. I honestly don't really care how it goes (beyond enjoying the debate), but from a neutral stand point I can see how there is no point playing an archer anymore, none of you can deny that despite spouting these magical properties of mystical archers, no one is going to bother playing the class if things don't change (as I said they already should of for the reasons listed). If it was so great, if/when cap is raised, there will be plenty of archers about right? It was ISYLVER that said CON needs to be used for HP...not me. I am simply asking what happened to that proposition, not saying it should happen. Again you need to learn to read properly my friend. And who says the stats on the selection screen are the final say? stop making up these false arguments based on hearsay (again) lol, who says things aren't meant to deviate from the selection screen just because they don't for other classes? did you create the game? or speak with the original developers? You are speculating as to why archers were the way they were. The fact is if people hadn't of griefed their chars on Esoma, bow wouldn't of been THAT much better, although because of WBM I do agree with lowering the eva rate on here, along with select other nerfs, but definitely not ALL of them...it's just making them too useless in the long run and they are all seeing that now. I've said my bit now, and as it's getting boring going round in circles! so Im OOT, enjoy the server.
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="TED"][quote="S0RCERER"]Let's address some absolute facts that you seem to be downplaying:
1) Archers have the range advantage
2) Archers have the highest accuracy of all classes
3) Archers have the highest evasion of all classes
What you are proposing is to increase their defence (by changing def to con) which will in turn give them the highest defence of all classes.
You keep saying Con should be addressed to contribute to HP, which would make Archers also have the highest HP of all classes.
A class which already has the lowest intake of damage as they can literally kite you.
When you do get close, you can't hit them.
And now wants to also take the lowest damage when someone does land a blow.
Gotcha.
Is there any downside you'd be willing to accept?
It's quite evident who chose to play archer just to be a god, rather than another player.
FYI Archers were never meant to have such high defence, on the character creation screen that role goes to Axe and Spear, just so happens that the game was not finished when it was launched and went live with such errors. This server has done a lot to address the imbalance and am happy to say that albeit still not quite there, it's a country mile better than it used to be.
WOTW is still Myth of Archers, but Dsoma PvP has shifted away from Archer-rule.
It's about damn time too.[/quote]
You are boring me now because you can't seem to read (sorry but I can't put it any other way).
But I do stand by saying that yes making CON defence for archers again is an option, when you consider the other changes made (adding a mob which makes much higher str possible), stop trying to isolate individual aspects of a character/game because you can't do that, things need to be looked at as the sum of it's parts, not the parts themselves.
I honestly don't really care how it goes (beyond enjoying the debate), but from a neutral stand point I can see how there is no point playing an archer anymore, none of you can deny that despite spouting these magical properties of mystical archers, no one is going to bother playing the class if things don't change (as I said they already should of for the reasons listed). If it was so great, if/when cap is raised, there will be plenty of archers about right?
It was ISYLVER that said CON needs to be used for HP...not me. I am simply asking what happened to that proposition, not saying it should happen. Again you need to learn to read properly my friend.
And who says the stats on the selection screen are the final say? stop making up these false arguments based on hearsay (again) lol, who says things aren't meant to deviate from the selection screen just because they don't for other classes? did you create the game? or speak with the original developers?
You are speculating as to why archers were the way they were. The fact is if people hadn't of griefed their chars on Esoma, bow wouldn't of been THAT much better, although because of WBM I do agree with lowering the eva rate on here, along with select other nerfs, but definitely not ALL of them...it's just making them too useless in the long run and they are all seeing that now.
I've said my bit now, and as it's getting boring going round in circles! so Im OOT, enjoy the server.[/quote]
|
#84 2015/05/08 22:51:47 |
|
EVIL_JR |
https://youtu.be/3wbVUjiQ4jw
https://youtu.be/GU4TubJ97iY https://youtu.be/_oW-0zgYQ6g Archer is shit BUT Its too late to do shit now, changing anything at this late stage in the game is shit archers that have spent hours punching will have lost on con and ** extra attack archers get will nerf mages and humans ** ** buffing axers attack will result in no capped axers as % at apai would be suicidal** its not just the new mobs that have fucked things up its also all the accuracy and defense upgrades ... warthog chain (7~11% (17%) ) .... icarus feather (+4~11% (13%) ) .. halloween top .... Keen Eye's... Everyone was quick enough to jump on the change to make sure people took damage/ had to pot its not just the new mobs that have fucked things up its also all the accuracy and defense upgrades ... warthog chain.... icarus feather.. halloween top.... Keen Eye's... Everyone was quick enough to jump on the change to make sure people took damage/ had to pot from mobs with the 100% eva... this is the same... always the dex nerfs never the str nerf ****Edit**** Another important point is that there are currently no archers with good gear and good weapons My opinion is to leave shit as it is. and add a farming mob with a decent drop rate on conti for both races at level 100.. make it a mix race dropping mob ... so if a human kills it drops human items..even on devil conti
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="EVIL_JR"]https://youtu.be/3wbVUjiQ4jw
https://youtu.be/GU4TubJ97iY
https://youtu.be/_oW-0zgYQ6g
Archer is shit
BUT
Its too late to do shit now, changing anything at this late stage in the game is shit
archers that have spent hours punching will have lost on con
and
** extra attack archers get will nerf mages and humans **
** buffing axers attack will result in no capped axers as % at apai would be suicidal**
its not just the new mobs that have fucked things up its also all the accuracy and defense upgrades ... warthog chain (7~11% (17%) ) .... icarus feather (+4~11% (13%) ) .. halloween top .... Keen Eye's...
Everyone was quick enough to jump on the change to make sure people took damage/ had to pot
its not just the new mobs that have fucked things up its also all the accuracy and defense upgrades ... warthog chain.... icarus feather.. halloween top.... Keen Eye's...
Everyone was quick enough to jump on the change to make sure people took damage/ had to pot from mobs with the 100% eva... this is the same... always the dex nerfs never the str nerf
****Edit****
Another important point is that there are currently no archers with good gear and good weapons
My opinion is to leave shit as it is. and add a farming mob with a decent drop rate on conti for both races at level 100.. make it a mix race dropping mob ... so if a human kills it drops human items..even on devil conti[/quote]
|
#85 2015/05/09 00:02:49 |
|
KAIDONE |
As an outsider based purely on the videos above i'd say axe is better than archer just my opinion.
|
#86 2015/05/09 00:33:23 |
|
EVIL_JR |
"KAIDONE"As an outsider based purely on the videos above i'd say axe is better than archer just my opinion. the axer in the video is nearly 5 levels lower than the archer aswell lol thats like 30str on dsoma |
#87 2015/05/09 00:43:20 |
|
CARNAGE |
I am slayer of archers most dangerous dev EU, Minus Lazarus ;[
|
#88 2015/05/09 00:51:30 |
|
TEUTA |
Jr, how about you do a test where you hit back.
In accuracy gear, you would kill Kekket before he lands a hit. |
#89 2015/05/09 04:15:23 |
|
EVIL_JR |
I have^^
|
#90 2015/05/09 08:18:56 |
Please sign in with one of your characters to reply