| Author | Content | Date |
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KOVARAS |
Carnt argue with that scorc the fact that the difference between the high level devils and low level devils is massive. theres even a big dif between top 4th bow users and devils who just got got it.
which is why the route of balancing the war with % based system may not be a good idea. Top end devils do soooooo much damage to reduce them to the point where they dont stomp 90% of the human population would leave many lower level devs meaningless. and its not an easy fix for the gms i fear n we all including myself have been giving them a head ache over it so im gonna try n look at this constructively again... Magor issue 1 1 have with wotw n why i dont want to turn up.... price of +100 pots. i have to buy them to stand any chance of servival. but simply can not afford this every week possible solution a vender in safe zone that sells cheap pots (if possible pots only work in conti so they dont get abused. mass baught then stored in wh for example) (devils should get 1 2) Balance. i think in general we all agree theres a balance issue and the last we need is the situation flipping on its head so devils stand no chance. like ive just said i dont think a %based system is vaiable. is it not possible just for the war to buff humans hp on conti maps? say by x2. if i have x2 hp top end devils would 4 hit me. average about 6 to 8 hits. meaning i would be alot braver when seeing a big group of devils n rather than just running i would stay n fight. esp if the pots wasn't costing a fortune. but atm my problem is if 2 devils hit me at the same time i die. no real chance of potting out of it. esp if 1 dev top level. i wont deny my int makes devils pot (about 73 ish) carnt exactly remember) so by reducing % further n further it will only get to the point where devils carnt stand up to our int n thats no better than whats going off atm. are devils resricted to waters like humans? no matter how many times i weakened people last night i saw a blue flash and weaken was gone. was this just one of those things or can devs carry many waters? if so maybe reduce it n give dev mages a cure A big issue is how much better devp weps n armor are on attack n defence compared to humans. im not saying they shouldn't be better theres a lower play base n they need something. but spiked set at 33 str with a tag can be better than a good bone set at 8x (carnt remember exact str) this seams a bit silly to me. weps are the same with alot more attack on them n this is why devils level soooo much faster than us and will continue to do so
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[quote="KOVARAS"]Carnt argue with that scorc the fact that the difference between the high level devils and low level devils is massive. theres even a big dif between top 4th bow users and devils who just got got it.
which is why the route of balancing the war with % based system may not be a good idea. Top end devils do soooooo much damage to reduce them to the point where they dont stomp 90% of the human population would leave many lower level devs meaningless. and its not an easy fix for the gms i fear n we all including myself have been giving them a head ache over it so im gonna try n look at this constructively again...
Magor issue 1 1 have with wotw n why i dont want to turn up....
price of +100 pots. i have to buy them to stand any chance of servival. but simply can not afford this every week
possible solution
a vender in safe zone that sells cheap pots (if possible pots only work in conti so they dont get abused. mass baught then stored in wh for example) (devils should get 1 2)
Balance. i think in general we all agree theres a balance issue and the last we need is the situation flipping on its head so devils stand no chance. like ive just said i dont think a %based system is vaiable. is it not possible just for the war to buff humans hp on conti maps? say by x2. if i have x2 hp top end devils would 4 hit me. average about 6 to 8 hits. meaning i would be alot braver when seeing a big group of devils n rather than just running i would stay n fight. esp if the pots wasn't costing a fortune. but atm my problem is if 2 devils hit me at the same time i die. no real chance of potting out of it. esp if 1 dev top level. i wont deny my int makes devils pot (about 73 ish) carnt exactly remember) so by reducing % further n further it will only get to the point where devils carnt stand up to our int n thats no better than whats going off atm.
are devils resricted to waters like humans? no matter how many times i weakened people last night i saw a blue flash and weaken was gone. was this just one of those things or can devs carry many waters? if so maybe reduce it n give dev mages a cure
A big issue is how much better devp weps n armor are on attack n defence compared to humans. im not saying they shouldn't be better theres a lower play base n they need something. but spiked set at 33 str with a tag can be better than a good bone set at 8x (carnt remember exact str) this seams a bit silly to me. weps are the same with alot more attack on them n this is why devils level soooo much faster than us and will continue to do so
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#76 2013/10/22 12:10:32 |
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SHILIEW |
"KOVARAS" Serums have increased weight i think but not by much that it makes any difference, should give them a delay like pots is 4 pots per second i think? Maybe a serum delay of 1 serum per 2/3 seconsd maybe
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[quote="SHILIEW"][quote="KOVARAS"]
are devils resricted to waters like humans? no matter how many times i weakened people last night i saw a blue flash and weaken was gone. was this just one of those things or can devs carry many waters? if so maybe reduce it n give dev mages a cure
[/quote]
Serums have increased weight i think but not by much that it makes any difference, should give them a delay like pots is 4 pots per second i think? Maybe a serum delay of 1 serum per 2/3 seconsd maybe[/quote]
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#77 2013/10/22 12:37:36 |
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RAZOR |
The solution is to remove the 60% cap until we find an equal balance, then it will be fine. Being level 40 I would consider myself one of the weakest people at the wotw for humans. My str is too low to make an impact but I was able to do some damage with int. It would be nice to fight a devil my level as everyone I could see was higher than me (except the 2 guys in strong armor who didn't leave the safe zone).
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[quote="RAZOR"]The solution is to remove the 60% cap until we find an equal balance, then it will be fine. Being level 40 I would consider myself one of the weakest people at the wotw for humans. My str is too low to make an impact but I was able to do some damage with int. It would be nice to fight a devil my level as everyone I could see was higher than me (except the 2 guys in strong armor who didn't leave the safe zone).[/quote]
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#78 2013/10/22 12:43:05 |
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CARNAGE |
"S0RCERER"Now, even with the increased health pools, this problem is exacerbated due to the ability to top yourself off instantly with the +100hp pot. Alright I clearly see and understand your point with this suggestion but just like when you suggested it a while back I didn't agree and I still don't agree mainly because this affects regular dsoma pvp way too much to just see their complete removal for something that only happens once a week for one hour, I'll quote Ghostlord here. "GHOSTLORD"I think devils will need +100 pots for end game. Even with old weapons DSoma PvP is a lot faster than HSoma so with the delay having +50 pots max could be an issue. It's already hard to enough to try and outpot other good devils and especially dsoma mages using +100's, +50's as max with the added pot delay I can see mages just running over everyone. They're also used for boss fights and such. In my opinion a change like this would have to be for wotw only, maybe wotw specific pots, but going by every wotw thread ever main the problem is the damage humans take or at least that's usually what the complaints are about.
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[quote="CARNAGE"][quote="S0RCERER"]Now, even with the increased health pools, this problem is exacerbated due to the ability to top yourself off instantly with the +100hp pot.
I'm absolutely certain the removal of the +100hp on dsoma would help leaps and bounds in lowering the tankability of devils.
Devils were not killing humans quickly and easily, we were killing you by all targeting the same one and picking you off. Most of the war, Bomboklat was calling a target and we were focusing you guys down.
Our attack/magic attack wasn't "flooring" you guys, we just didn't die because with +100s, it's almost impossible to.[/quote]
Alright I clearly see and understand your point with this suggestion but just like when you suggested it a while back I didn't agree and I still don't agree mainly because this affects regular dsoma pvp way too much to just see their complete removal for something that only happens once a week for one hour, I'll quote Ghostlord here.
[quote="GHOSTLORD"]I think devils will need +100 pots for end game. Even with old weapons DSoma PvP is a lot faster than HSoma so with the delay having +50 pots max could be an issue.[/quote]
It's already hard to enough to try and outpot other good devils and especially dsoma mages using +100's, +50's as max with the added pot delay I can see mages just running over everyone. They're also used for boss fights and such.
In my opinion a change like this would have to be for wotw only, maybe wotw specific pots, but going by every wotw thread ever main the problem is the damage humans take or at least that's usually what the complaints are about.
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#79 2013/10/22 13:09:21 |
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SLAYER |
Like I said in fujis thread on ideas forum you cant nerf devils anymore 60% is already too slow for devils under 50 to attend (devils humans can kill) the only option is to buff human damage
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#80 2013/10/22 13:11:09 |
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MERLIN |
Anyone who thinks this game was ever built, envisioned or even planned to be balanced is playing the wrong MMORPG.
Played ESoma on all kinds of characters and the bottom line is it's a broken game. That's why it closed, it had nowhere to go. I can understand the GM's of this incarnation are trying to please everyone but inevitably in pleasing someone you will upset someone else. In the short term devils will always be accused of being overpowered. Devils have their own balance problems just within classes without bringing Humans into the situation. Potential Solutions A naked charity WOTW - raising Barr for all the Soma junkies who can't deal with not killing every character they click. SOMA is a game where even when it was official there should of been a weekly/monthly cap on how many hours can be played on a character, it's a health hazard. Balance will never be achieved for everyone; people who know the game have learnt to cope with the downsides and exploit the upsides. Personally I hadn't played Soma in years, I logged on, got hooked on levelling and just getting on with it, realising very fast that if you want to be any good in wars you have to stop living and not log off and even then it's a short term advantage. Anyone who thinks ESoma was perfect or better are in a dream world - they must of never seen Charun maxed out trying to hit o0gabo0ga or Constiwoman hitting Fleshtuh with a DB. Imbalance doesn't ruin Soma, people do and the game encourages it ;p
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[quote="MERLIN"]Anyone who thinks this game was ever built, envisioned or even planned to be balanced is playing the wrong MMORPG.
Played ESoma on all kinds of characters and the bottom line is it's a broken game. That's why it closed, it had nowhere to go.
I can understand the GM's of this incarnation are trying to please everyone but inevitably in pleasing someone you will upset someone else.
In the short term devils will always be accused of being overpowered.
Devils have their own balance problems just within classes without bringing Humans into the situation.
Potential Solutions
A naked charity WOTW - raising Barr for all the Soma junkies who can't deal with not killing every character they click.
SOMA is a game where even when it was official there should of been a weekly/monthly cap on how many hours can be played on a character, it's a health hazard.
Balance will never be achieved for everyone; people who know the game have learnt to cope with the downsides and exploit the upsides.
Personally I hadn't played Soma in years, I logged on, got hooked on levelling and just getting on with it, realising very fast that if you want to be any good in wars you have to stop living and not log off and even then it's a short term advantage.
Anyone who thinks ESoma was perfect or better are in a dream world - they must of never seen Charun maxed out trying to hit o0gabo0ga or Constiwoman hitting Fleshtuh with a DB.
Imbalance doesn't ruin Soma, people do and the game encourages it ;p[/quote]
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#81 2013/10/22 13:15:24 |
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MANTICORE |
kovaras im wondering have you ever tried to lvl a devil soma char? The mobs have way more stats than human soma ones lets just take an example http://myth-of-soma.com/Armory/Monster.asp?id=1055 dsoma mobs for lvl20+ http://myth-of-soma.com/Armory/Monster.asp?id=159 hsoma mobs for lvl20+ i have chars on both worlds with human i have no need to go town and i actually gain barrs with devil is not that profitable
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[quote="MANTICORE"][quote=]kovaras
A big issue is how much better devp weps n armor are on attack n defence compared to humans. im not saying they shouldn't be better theres a lower play base n they need something. but spiked set at 33 str with a tag can be better than a good bone set at 8x (carnt remember exact str) this seams a bit silly to me. weps are the same with alot more attack on them n this is why devils level soooo much faster than us and will continue to do so
[/quote]
im wondering have you ever tried to lvl a devil soma char?
The mobs have way more stats than human soma ones lets just take an example
http://myth-of-soma.com/Armory/Monster.asp?id=1055 dsoma mobs for lvl20+
http://myth-of-soma.com/Armory/Monster.asp?id=159 hsoma mobs for lvl20+
i have chars on both worlds with human i have no need to go town and i actually gain barrs with devil is not that profitable
[/quote]
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#82 2013/10/22 19:35:32 |
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STU |
"CARNAGE""SHATTERSTAR""CARNAGE""NITROSTEALTH""CARNAGE"If that's case Malefic must be one brute of a character because he had everyone on him for ages, I actually think with the right support that guy was more than capable of holding a stone considering he did it by himself with little to no support at all. "WOW there were SO many humans outside I couldn't even move, they all started attacking just me, but still tanked them all and ran inside. P.s. we are not OP."
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[quote="STU"][quote="CARNAGE"][quote="SHATTERSTAR"][quote="CARNAGE"][quote="NITROSTEALTH"][quote="CARNAGE"]If that's case Malefic must be one brute of a character because he had everyone on him for ages, I actually think with the right support that guy was more than capable of holding a stone considering he did it by himself with little to no support at all.[/quote]
30secs at most = ages ?[/quote]
Considering he was fully circled by range one devils that's pretty decent, throw in enough people to block those spots and he could of done more than 30 seconds easily especially getting on the stone at the right time.
[/quote]
While that is true, the support is more like cannon fodder. Would you not just pick off the weak humans first, and then waste Malefic? Also we need two stones and not one.
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I'm not arguing against that, my point is that was about 8(6? forgot max spot number) devs circled around Malefic that shouldn't have been while you're all sat outside the door. I ran outside and thought wtf why are there so many outside do they not know what the time is lol followed by perma slow/blind/weakening. Couldn't do fa had to wait for a moment and run back in lol.
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"WOW there were SO many humans outside I couldn't even move, they all started attacking just me, but still tanked them all and ran inside. P.s. we are not OP."[/quote]
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#83 2013/10/22 20:50:49 |
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CARNAGE |
"STU""WOW there were SO many humans outside I couldn't even move, they all started attacking just me, but still tanked them all and ran inside. P.s. we are not OP." Mad? Maybe you should pipe down and save your witty adjusted quotes for when your character actually has better than 53 str gear.
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[quote="CARNAGE"][quote="STU"]"WOW there were SO many humans outside I couldn't even move, they all started attacking just me, but still tanked them all and ran inside. P.s. we are not OP."[/quote]
Mad? Maybe you should pipe down and save your witty adjusted quotes for when your character actually has better than 53 str gear.[/quote]
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#84 2013/10/22 21:18:30 |
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TRIBAL |
"MANTICORE"kovaras I played both and devils can kill mobs 15+ str then themselfs which is not possible on hsoma, not only that but with devils ridiculous drops it increases the chance of tagged items, my level 56 human failed to obtain a intense item were as my lvl24 devil has already have 2 intense weapons as of yet. The leveling speed on devils is laughable though, i could probably reach 56 in half the time i played on my human. I fail to see how this has been worked on for over 4 years and have such a bad balence as it's showing at the moment, we all knew esoma was broken, i don't see why they didn't just change devil gains like human gains, let devils learn any aura/skills, pretty much a copy and paste of humans, it would of solved everything. People are also failing to see that this isn't just about conti, quite a lot of us enjoyed going into conti when we didn't own it and having some fun but it's impossible on here, the best feature of this game is broken and really can't be fixed at this point, i don't believe for one second that it will be solved with %.
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[quote="TRIBAL"][quote="MANTICORE"][quote=]kovaras
A big issue is how much better devp weps n armor are on attack n defence compared to humans. im not saying they shouldn't be better theres a lower play base n they need something. but spiked set at 33 str with a tag can be better than a good bone set at 8x (carnt remember exact str) this seams a bit silly to me. weps are the same with alot more attack on them n this is why devils level soooo much faster than us and will continue to do so
[/quote]
im wondering have you ever tried to lvl a devil soma char?
The mobs have way more stats than human soma ones lets just take an example
http://myth-of-soma.com/Armory/Monster.asp?id=1055 dsoma mobs for lvl20+
http://myth-of-soma.com/Armory/Monster.asp?id=159 hsoma mobs for lvl20+
i have chars on both worlds with human i have no need to go town and i actually gain barrs with devil is not that profitable
[/quote]
I played both and devils can kill mobs 15+ str then themselfs which is not possible on hsoma, not only that but with devils ridiculous drops it increases the chance of tagged items, my level 56 human failed to obtain a intense item were as my lvl24 devil has already have 2 intense weapons as of yet.
The leveling speed on devils is laughable though, i could probably reach 56 in half the time i played on my human.
I fail to see how this has been worked on for over 4 years and have such a bad balence as it's showing at the moment, we all knew esoma was broken, i don't see why they didn't just change devil gains like human gains, let devils learn any aura/skills, pretty much a copy and paste of humans, it would of solved everything.
People are also failing to see that this isn't just about conti, quite a lot of us enjoyed going into conti when we didn't own it and having some fun but it's impossible on here, the best feature of this game is broken and really can't be fixed at this point, i don't believe for one second that it will be solved with %.[/quote]
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#85 2013/10/22 22:17:28 |
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SCOIN |
Someone said earlier that it might help if some how both humans and devils are unable to attack a member of the opposing race who would only give 50 pos.
Is there any way this could be implemented just to test if it would help? Although one problem I can see is that wow could end up a war or nubs due to people using level 1 chars to stand on stones lol thinking aloud.............
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[quote="SCOIN"]Someone said earlier that it might help if some how both humans and devils are unable to attack a member of the opposing race who would only give 50 pos.
Is there any way this could be implemented just to test if it would help?
Although one problem I can see is that wow could end up a war or nubs due to people using level 1 chars to stand on stones lol
thinking aloud.............[/quote]
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#86 2013/10/22 23:11:16 |
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RAVER |
And on the 27th (if that's the next war) the flame war will continue, same shit different week!
for god sake change the record |
#87 2013/10/23 00:16:07 |
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NAIKOFIG |
"TRIBAL" what bullshit is that devils have increased drop rate ? im 62 i have yet to see an intense drop just coz u got lucky doesnt mean increased drop rates. as for it never being fixed with % i think ur right change it too low then any devil below 70 might aswell not show up too high and lvl 70+ dev well rape pretty much
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[quote="NAIKOFIG"][quote="TRIBAL]"
I played both and devils can kill mobs 15+ str then themselfs which is not possible on hsoma, not only that but with devils ridiculous drops it increases the chance of tagged items, my level 56 human failed to obtain a intense item were as my lvl24 devil has already have 2 intense weapons as of yet.
The leveling speed on devils is laughable though, i could probably reach 56 in half the time i played on my human.
I fail to see how this has been worked on for over 4 years and have such a bad balence as it's showing at the moment, we all knew esoma was broken, i don't see why they didn't just change devil gains like human gains, let devils learn any aura/skills, pretty much a copy and paste of humans, it would of solved everything.
People are also failing to see that this isn't just about conti, quite a lot of us enjoyed going into conti when we didn't own it and having some fun but it's impossible on here, the best feature of this game is broken and really can't be fixed at this point, i don't believe for one second that it will be solved with %.[/quote]
what bullshit is that devils have increased drop rate ? im 62 i have yet to see an intense drop just coz u got lucky doesnt mean increased drop rates.
as for it never being fixed with % i think ur right change it too low then any devil below 70 might aswell not show up too high and lvl 70+ dev well rape pretty much
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#88 2013/10/23 05:46:14 |
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RAZOR |
"NAIKOFIG""TRIBAL" Sorry Naiko, its true. When I started my devil a chap was kind enough to get me a set of spiked and hardened which dropped every other mob he was saying. I have intense spiked pads, I'm level 21 and they have 13-22 def. Thats 5-5 more than bone on the 33 str item.
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[quote="RAZOR"][quote="NAIKOFIG"][quote="TRIBAL]"
I played both and devils can kill mobs 15+ str then themselfs which is not possible on hsoma, not only that but with devils ridiculous drops it increases the chance of tagged items, my level 56 human failed to obtain a intense item were as my lvl24 devil has already have 2 intense weapons as of yet.
The leveling speed on devils is laughable though, i could probably reach 56 in half the time i played on my human.
I fail to see how this has been worked on for over 4 years and have such a bad balence as it's showing at the moment, we all knew esoma was broken, i don't see why they didn't just change devil gains like human gains, let devils learn any aura/skills, pretty much a copy and paste of humans, it would of solved everything.
People are also failing to see that this isn't just about conti, quite a lot of us enjoyed going into conti when we didn't own it and having some fun but it's impossible on here, the best feature of this game is broken and really can't be fixed at this point, i don't believe for one second that it will be solved with %.[/quote]
what bullshit is that devils have increased drop rate ? im 62 i have yet to see an intense drop just coz u got lucky doesnt mean increased drop rates.
as for it never being fixed with % i think ur right change it too low then any devil below 70 might aswell not show up too high and lvl 70+ dev well rape pretty much
[/quote]
Sorry Naiko, its true. When I started my devil a chap was kind enough to get me a set of spiked and hardened which dropped every other mob he was saying. I have intense spiked pads, I'm level 21 and they have 13-22 def. Thats 5-5 more than bone on the 33 str item.
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#89 2013/10/23 08:00:19 |
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SLAYER |
42 str gear drops for fun. Everything tagged higher than dread is very rare though. Humans have better useful drops. Not to mention the 13 bosses they had spawned to our 1 last night. .
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#90 2013/10/23 10:02:09 |
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