The Forum

[quote="CHOJINE"]I have come to the realization, that pure knuckle is no longer a viable option to level. In times passed, knuckle would allow players to move to mobs early, and provided fast levelling, at the expense of slower dex / str. With the compounding effect that lowered dodge has, with hero boots requiring 82 str, the one thing that allowed pure knuckle users to move to DW etc is gone, their evasion. As pure knuckle, you are now forced to train a strength weapon, or eat through 200 hp pots at DW in 5 minutes. Before people tell me to QQ and train a strength weapon, I use Knuckle as I enjoy it, it is supposed to be the only weapon, other than sword you can use pure (realistically) from level 1 to 100. No longer. Are there any other pure knucklers who feel the same way? Or whose opinion is opposite to mine? [/quote]

[quote="GINGESTRO"]I definitely think that knuckle should have its dodge put back to what it was previously. I know that dodge is the same aura for both knukl and bow but it would be good if they could be split so that knuck users can have more evasion. Like you say, it is high on impossible to go pure knuck with low evasion as str is too low to move mobs even though you might have the dex.[/quote]

[quote="YOSHIMITSU"]I agree with this, I wanted to do pure knuckle for a while but it's impossible. I'd like to see knuckle given a rise in %, maybe not to it's original but certainly a rise. [/quote]

[quote="JARAGOONDOO"]I was thinking this for a while, too. DSoma knuckle has a really hard time the way things are at the moment. I did not say anything earlier due to the fact that I am a knuckle-class, and as such my opinions may seem biased.[/quote]

[quote="GHOSTLORD"]Personally I don't see knuxers on DSoma struggling anymore than an axer or swordie. It's interesting to see your opinions though, since I've always believed knuckle as one of the average hunting class (not time wise but how hard it is) and average to high PvP potential. [/quote]

[quote="CYROX"]I do agree with this. I was intending to go pure nux. I quickly realised (around 60skill) that this was not viable and picked up a str weapon. I would like to go back to pure nux or at least keep it as my main, but it is just too inferior now. At a minimum, dodge for nux needs to be 15% as esoma. I think this will bring it back in line, but i still think it will be slightly underpar with the increase in stat gains sword has been given, and the nerf to evasion boots.[/quote]

[quote="TOLIC"]why should knuckle get better evasion? speed of leveling skill gains and decent dex not good enough for you? please, bow has to pick up a str weapon so why not knuckle? stick it out with knuckle and don't expect to move onto another mob so easy this is a slow rate server so your stats arnt going to be given so easily with just using one weapon. [/quote]

[quote="CHOJINE"][quote="TOLIC"]why should knuckle get better evasion? speed of leveling skill gains and decent dex not good enough for you? please, bow has to pick up a str weapon so why not knuckle? stick it out with knuckle and don't expect to move onto another mob so easy this is a slow rate server so your stats arnt going to be given so easily with just using one weapon. [/quote] Knuckle is designed to be a weapon that you can solely use, and its cost is slower dexterity and strength gains for this privilege. If I have to use axe alongside it, i would just go Bow / Axe, for better dex on my dex levels. It is like changing Soma, so that you cannot use pure sword, imagine telling the swordies that they HAVE to use axe to get anywhere. As it stands, knuckle might aswell be removed, as unless it's changed everyone will reskill Bow / Axe after 65 dex, just to be able to fight the next mobs. Food for thought : As it stands, I am currently gaining 0.8 strength per level as pure knuckle. I will have to level on Wraith until around level 52 before moving to DW. Which will mean outstaying Wraith far past the point at which they are rubbish for dex.[/quote]

[quote="JARAGOONDOO"][quote="GHOSTLORD"]Personally I don't see knuxers on DSoma struggling anymore than an axer or swordie. It's interesting to see your opinions though, since I've always believed knuckle as one of the average hunting class (not time wise but how hard it is) and average to high PvP potential. [/quote] Hmm... no. You're quite wrong about the Axe- and Sword-user stuff. Knuckle is also one of the weakest in PvP, which is made up for by fast-levelling (but I won't go into PvP too much here). A level 40-45 Axer, with a good shield, good armor and 2nd aura will take minimum damage (or close to) from Conti AB. As a knuckle-user, I am still taking more than that at level 58 (95 CON). Because Conti AB (and a lot of the Devil hunting monsters) have high offensive DEX, my extra dodge chance (from my superior DEX) is negligible. I've used dodge aura quite a lot while hunting at Conti AB and I will tell you that is more beneficial to use 1st, 3rd or 4th. Dodge has not noticeable effect unless you are trying to cap your dodge chance (which means you need about 40 more DEX than their offensive DEX). Just to give you a better comparison: Axe: Shield and 2nd aura make up for low CON and DEX (they will take minimum damage from most mobs) Spear: High CON gains. They'll struggle a bit, but CON makes up for it Sword: Decent CON and DEX. Shield makes it easier Knuckle: Low CON, decent DEX. Dodge nerf hurts them pretty bad Bow: High CON and DEX (making their base the "tankiest" class). Range means they can half kill mobs before they've even laid a finger of you Now, I'm not shouting for it to be changed for myself. I've already powered through all the difficult bits, but I'd rather not other knuckle-users under me have the same troubles I did which, in comparison to other classes, seems unfair.[/quote]

[quote="PATHOLOGIST"]Those are not the only problems, this tagged system doesn't work as much for knuckle as it does the other classes. As the tagged system seems to be a %+ increase on an item's Att or Def, the higher the base value, the greater the increase in stats. (This info was taken from either Isylver or Finito talking about lower end weapons having no different in stat changes between tagged and untagged because their figures were too low to notice) So an axe or sword with already high damage, gains more attack than a knuckle would. You might think that since the knuckle is faster, its balanced, well the increase in attack speed is infinitesimally small compared to a flat out boost in damage. You might hit 0.2seconds quicker, but the axer or swordie with a higher base weapon damage will be doing 20-40 more a hit (going by the tags of the end game weps) This, coupled with the fact tags are on Armor is even more pressing. So, not only are the knucklers taking a nerf from dodge, they have the smallest increase in DPS, a player with a whole set of tagged armour outweighs the small attack buff from tags. This is no rant, its just to bring people up to speed on what's going on with this unique, yet unfortunately flawed tagged system.[/quote]

[quote="CYROX"]There are two dex giving weaps in game, bow and nux. In esoma people would go bow for the massive pvp advantage, and other would go nux for the levelling advantage. Not, once you get towards dw's and vod mobs, there is a big difference. Let me explain. In esoma, everyone would just get 100% evasion and then stand there tanking. Now, bowers can continue to either cliff or kill 1 mob at a time and kill it before it even does any damage. Well what options do nuxers have with these equivilent mobs? We can cliff, we cant tank 1 at a time, so we are forced to hunt lower level mobs. Thats why i believe dodge for nux can be upped, whereas bow can remain as is. Lets not forget that bow still has a massive pvp advantage. What motive is there for nux now? What one reason would you pick nux over bow? Its not for levelling, its not for pvp.... Another option would be to up nux damage considerably. Not just 1-1 or something. Im talking being able to tank 1 mob and kill at a much faster speed than any other weap. This will bring it back in line with other weaps for levelling and it will also make it viable for pvp. *edit* above is mainly related to hsoma as not sure how it would affect dsoma, not got any experience with a high lvl dsoma nuxer,[/quote]

[quote="CHOJINE"]Bump, just to see if we can get a GM's view, a possible solution or a stern 'not changing nuk', either way, bump.[/quote]

[quote="XXX"]The char plum is pure knux he does fine? knux is a fast weap thats the advantage? or am i missing somthing?[/quote]

[quote="CHOJINE"]If you have so many hours free you can power past the fact that you last 5-10 mins a run at DW and just do tonnes of runs a day. If you are a multi then the same counts. If you are joe blogs, knuckle is a train wreck of a choice. Knuckles only strength in levelling was dependant upon A) its fast attack speed, and B) good dex combined with dodge and hero boots. Remove hero boots from the equation, as knuckle users will be nigh on 75-80 dex by the time they can equip them. Then take into account the fact that dodge has been nerfed from 15%-8%, and you are left with a class that hits fast, has no strength, okay dex, little to no evasion and bad defence, along with the fact that knuckle already has bad att compared to other weapons and also does less damage with 4th (22) whereas others cause (35).[/quote]

[quote="GRAVIJA"]As someone that isn't a knuckle user and never will be, ide be perfectly fine if changes to knuckle were something like 2nd aura 10% evasion (instead of 8% to compensate for the ridiculas range advantage bow has) 3rd and 5th aura to never miss (currently dex based) 4th aura to be 35 dmg (instead of 22) I'de even say it would be a positive idea to put humans hero boots upto something like 7% As for knuckle attack, it's the lowest because it is the highest speed. Doing any pure dex weapon on hsoma will always be a struggle. Hitting the big dex slow downs at earlier level will force you into levels where you gain .1 every 10%+ but again this is something every character has to go through so don't let it discourage you. I'de suggest posting a list of idea's in the idea section and just get people to either agree or disagree instead of creating huge long threads and posts (like i'm doing now) moaning about whats wrong with the server. This server will do well from positive idea's and change, not negative input to what we currently don't like. [/quote]