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ISYLVER [Staff] |
I guess we'll see. We can also making certain other items require int too :o.
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#31 2017/01/08 13:29:35 |
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S0RCERER |
"ISYLVER"I guess we'll see. We can also making certain other items require int too :o. Finito shared the reasoning behind the GVW % change (despite it not being needed for Dsoma). Would you care to explain why you wish to change Dsoma's stat and item system?
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[quote="S0RCERER"][quote="ISYLVER"]I guess we'll see. We can also making certain other items require int too :o.[/quote]
Finito shared the reasoning behind the GVW % change (despite it not being needed for Dsoma).
Would you care to explain why you wish to change Dsoma's stat and item system?[/quote]
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#32 2017/01/08 13:36:05 |
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NOTMAT |
"ISYLVER"I guess we'll see. We can also making certain other items require int too :o. People just wouldn't wear those items. |
#33 2017/01/08 13:36:23 |
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JHAELIEN |
From a sword/spear point of view it would be a waste to invest in int/wis as it wouldn't stop me getting 2/3 hit at wotw with or without robes. So I'd rather go without and put those points elsewhere.
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#34 2017/01/08 13:38:45 |
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ISYLVER [Staff] |
@s0rc we honestly don't see a longevity in dsoma with the way it currently works. We do not think we could achieve a successful balance with its current situation. To be somewhat dramatic - it was either this or wipe Dsoma - we went for the lest drastic route.
Most of you are aware that my knowledge is primarily with hsoma, hence why I'm relying on fin and ghost for changes. I only make suggestions in regards to dsoma (such as the guides, before there were no upper limits) as it would be unfavourable for me to dictate the future updates for a race that I am not the most knowledgeable about. However, I fully support this suggested change as a way of improving balance in the future. I'm aware that people may not like this but to put it bluntly we haven't seen anything that offers a better solution (this includes fixed stats after level 100). Apologies if there any typos - wrote on mobile 👍👊🙈🔔🎉
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[quote="ISYLVER"]@s0rc we honestly don't see a longevity in dsoma with the way it currently works. We do not think we could achieve a successful balance with its current situation. To be somewhat dramatic - it was either this or wipe Dsoma - we went for the lest drastic route.
Most of you are aware that my knowledge is primarily with hsoma, hence why I'm relying on fin and ghost for changes. I only make suggestions in regards to dsoma (such as the guides, before there were no upper limits) as it would be unfavourable for me to dictate the future updates for a race that I am not the most knowledgeable about. However, I fully support this suggested change as a way of improving balance in the future.
I'm aware that people may not like this but to put it bluntly we haven't seen anything that offers a better solution (this includes fixed stats after level 100).
Apologies if there any typos - wrote on mobile 👍👊🙈🔔🎉[/quote]
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#35 2017/01/08 13:49:02 |
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S0RCERER |
"ISYLVER"it was either this or wipe Dsoma - we went for the lest drastic route. Thanks for your honesty, but you are wiping Dsoma by doing this. It removes the value of the items obtained, previously mentioned have taken years to do and all characters will end up identical as the value of your primary stats is far too high to invest in int/wis. If we take sword for example which caps at 230tr/165dex, the new system would already give them 10 extra str and 15 extra dex at cap. There is no swordsman/woman that would not try to hit these caps. They would then invest in as much con as possible and put all remaining points into WIS. The result would be the same ATT/DEF/DEX as today (+10str/15dex) but with 0 magic defense. Let's not even begin to talk about how it annihilates devil mages.
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[quote="S0RCERER"][quote="ISYLVER"]it was either this or wipe Dsoma - we went for the lest drastic route.[/quote]
Thanks for your honesty, but you are wiping Dsoma by doing this.
It removes the value of the items obtained, previously mentioned have taken years to do and all characters will end up identical as the value of your primary stats is far too high to invest in int/wis.
If we take sword for example which caps at 230tr/165dex, the new system would already give them 10 extra str and 15 extra dex at cap. There is no swordsman/woman that would not try to hit these caps. They would then invest in as much con as possible and put all remaining points into WIS.
The result would be the same ATT/DEF/DEX as today (+10str/15dex) but with 0 magic defense.
Let's not even begin to talk about how it annihilates devil mages.[/quote]
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#36 2017/01/08 13:55:56 |
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ISYLVER [Staff] |
As I said we have not seen a better solution - offered. I have to admit I'm a fan of this solution, purely as it allows us to constantly edit guides/ point allocations etc (build,measure,learn).
This would also give upgrades that add con/wis a purpose. I do see your frustration but as I said I am for this going forward.
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[quote="ISYLVER"]As I said we have not seen a better solution - offered. I have to admit I'm a fan of this solution, purely as it allows us to constantly edit guides/ point allocations etc (build,measure,learn).
This would also give upgrades that add con/wis a purpose. I do see your frustration but as I said I am for this going forward.[/quote]
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#37 2017/01/08 14:01:11 |
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NOTMAT |
"NOTMAT"Considering how massive the over-hawl is would it not just be better to reduce dsoma stats to be in line with hsoma? Do it by a % and reduce all mobs dex/str/int by the same.
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[quote="NOTMAT"][quote="NOTMAT"]Considering how massive the over-hawl is would it not just be better to reduce dsoma stats to be in line with hsoma? Do it by a % and reduce all mobs dex/str/int by the same.
edit - or just delete dsoma entirely. focus on hsoma and give anyone with a dsoma char 1000% rates or whatever on a human on the same account.[/quote]
[/quote]
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#38 2017/01/08 14:11:11 |
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ISYLVER [Staff] |
One of the major factors was punch characters we can't balance rvr when there are such anomalies. Yes we could theoretically reduce stats but we've had a look st every character and it's impossible to see who had punched and who hadn't.
Also with the new change we could still achieve your former suggestion with guides and point allocation.
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[quote="ISYLVER"]One of the major factors was punch characters we can't balance rvr when there are such anomalies. Yes we could theoretically reduce stats but we've had a look st every character and it's impossible to see who had punched and who hadn't.
Also with the new change we could still achieve your former suggestion with guides and point allocation.[/quote]
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#39 2017/01/08 14:13:58 |
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SLAYER |
"S0RCERER""ISYLVER"it was either this or wipe Dsoma - we went for the lest drastic route. You make it sound like it wouldn't be easy to overcome these issues....add a minimum INT requirement to melee armor, or failing that add further benefits to having the int, maybe new weapons that also require a certain level of int to equip (just throwing some ideas out there, not saying these should be used) .Even without that, and let's say people do as you suggest and stick to 0 INT, wouldn't that make mages stronger??? I think mages maybe do need more of a boost with melee stats, but with this patch they don't need to punch as they currently do, if a mage was to use only int to lvl 100 you know they would have far worse melee stats than what's being offered. If everyone is on 0 int they can put all their stats into capping the melee ones and still hurt all other classes.
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[quote="SLAYER"][quote="S0RCERER"][quote="ISYLVER"]it was either this or wipe Dsoma - we went for the lest drastic route.[/quote]
Thanks for your honesty, but you are wiping Dsoma by doing this.
It removes the value of the items obtained, previously mentioned have taken years to do and all characters will end up identical as the value of your primary stats is far too high to invest in int/wis.
If we take sword for example which caps at 230tr/165dex, the new system would already give them 10 extra str and 15 extra dex at cap. There is no swordsman/woman that would not try to hit these caps. They would then invest in as much con as possible and put all remaining points into WIS.
The result would be the same ATT/DEF/DEX as today (+10str/15dex) but with 0 magic defense.
Let's not even begin to talk about how it annihilates devil mages.[/quote]
You make it sound like it wouldn't be easy to overcome these issues....add a minimum INT requirement to melee armor, or failing that add further benefits to having the int, maybe new weapons that also require a certain level of int to equip (just throwing some ideas out there, not saying these should be used)
.Even without that, and let's say people do as you suggest and stick to 0 INT, wouldn't that make mages stronger??? I think mages maybe do need more of a boost with melee stats, but with this patch they don't need to punch as they currently do, if a mage was to use only int to lvl 100 you know they would have far worse melee stats than what's being offered. If everyone is on 0 int they can put all their stats into capping the melee ones and still hurt all other classes.
[/quote]
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#40 2017/01/08 14:19:27 |
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JHAELIEN |
Why add an int requirement to melee armour if it's no use to the character, I'm not a mage. I only want stats that benefit me.
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#41 2017/01/08 14:22:33 |
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S0RCERER |
"SLAYER""S0RCERER""ISYLVER"it was either this or wipe Dsoma - we went for the lest drastic route. This is why I used the expression "mountain out of a molehill". The perceived problem is far smaller than the problems created by this idea. Considering Ghostlord has said previously on this topic that Dsoma has never been more balanced than in its current state and that the entire rework (wipe) of Dsoma is due to punching, this change is remedying a broken nail by cutting off the hand.
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[quote="S0RCERER"][quote="SLAYER"][quote="S0RCERER"][quote="ISYLVER"]it was either this or wipe Dsoma - we went for the lest drastic route.[/quote]
Thanks for your honesty, but you are wiping Dsoma by doing this.
It removes the value of the items obtained, previously mentioned have taken years to do and all characters will end up identical as the value of your primary stats is far too high to invest in int/wis.
If we take sword for example which caps at 230tr/165dex, the new system would already give them 10 extra str and 15 extra dex at cap. There is no swordsman/woman that would not try to hit these caps. They would then invest in as much con as possible and put all remaining points into WIS.
The result would be the same ATT/DEF/DEX as today (+10str/15dex) but with 0 magic defense.
Let's not even begin to talk about how it annihilates devil mages.[/quote]
You make it sound like it wouldn't be easy to overcome these issues....add a minimum INT requirement to melee armor, or failing that add further benefits to having the int, maybe new weapons that also require a certain level of int to equip (just throwing some ideas out there, not saying these should be used)
.Even without that, and let's say people do as you suggest and stick to 0 INT, wouldn't that make mages stronger??? I think mages maybe do need more of a boost with melee stats, but with this patch they don't need to punch as they currently do, if a mage was to use only int to lvl 100 you know they would have far worse melee stats than what's being offered. If everyone is on 0 int they can put all their stats into capping the melee ones and still hurt all other classes.
[/quote]
This is why I used the expression "mountain out of a molehill".
The perceived problem is far smaller than the problems created by this idea.
Considering Ghostlord has said previously on this topic that Dsoma has never been more balanced than in its current state and that the entire rework (wipe) of Dsoma is due to punching, this change is remedying a broken nail by cutting off the hand.[/quote]
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#42 2017/01/08 14:31:56 |
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SLAYER |
"S0RCERER""SLAYER""S0RCERER""ISYLVER"it was either this or wipe Dsoma - we went for the lest drastic route. Sorry but I can't see your reply to my suggestions/points there?
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[quote="SLAYER"][quote="S0RCERER"][quote="SLAYER"][quote="S0RCERER"][quote="ISYLVER"]it was either this or wipe Dsoma - we went for the lest drastic route.[/quote]
Thanks for your honesty, but you are wiping Dsoma by doing this.
It removes the value of the items obtained, previously mentioned have taken years to do and all characters will end up identical as the value of your primary stats is far too high to invest in int/wis.
If we take sword for example which caps at 230tr/165dex, the new system would already give them 10 extra str and 15 extra dex at cap. There is no swordsman/woman that would not try to hit these caps. They would then invest in as much con as possible and put all remaining points into WIS.
The result would be the same ATT/DEF/DEX as today (+10str/15dex) but with 0 magic defense.
Let's not even begin to talk about how it annihilates devil mages.[/quote]
You make it sound like it wouldn't be easy to overcome these issues....add a minimum INT requirement to melee armor, or failing that add further benefits to having the int, maybe new weapons that also require a certain level of int to equip (just throwing some ideas out there, not saying these should be used)
.Even without that, and let's say people do as you suggest and stick to 0 INT, wouldn't that make mages stronger??? I think mages maybe do need more of a boost with melee stats, but with this patch they don't need to punch as they currently do, if a mage was to use only int to lvl 100 you know they would have far worse melee stats than what's being offered. If everyone is on 0 int they can put all their stats into capping the melee ones and still hurt all other classes.
[/quote]
This is why I used the expression "mountain out of a molehill".
The perceived problem is far smaller than the problems created by this idea.
Considering Ghostlord has said previously on this topic that Dsoma has never been more balanced than in its current state and that the entire rework (wipe) of Dsoma is due to punching, this change is remedying a broken nail by cutting off the hand.[/quote]
Sorry but I can't see your reply to my suggestions/points there?[/quote]
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#43 2017/01/08 14:38:26 |
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SLAYER |
"JHAELIEN"Why add an int requirement to melee armour if it's no use to the character, I'm not a mage. I only want stats that benefit me. I was just making a point that there a many ways of solving the simple issue of people not using any INT and using up all the rest of their points on other stats... If anyone didn't understand my point, it's that the 'problem' with everyone going for 0 int is not a problem.
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[quote="SLAYER"][quote="JHAELIEN"]Why add an int requirement to melee armour if it's no use to the character, I'm not a mage. I only want stats that benefit me. [/quote]
I was just making a point that there a many ways of solving the simple issue of people not using any INT and using up all the rest of their points on other stats...
If anyone didn't understand my point, it's that the 'problem' with everyone going for 0 int is not a problem.[/quote]
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#44 2017/01/08 14:40:06 |
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S0RCERER |
"SLAYER"Sorry but I can't see your reply to my suggestions/points there? Oh? I thought it was obvious that it needn't be said. Devil mages already do a lot of damage to other Devils, their relative power vs Melee devils will reduce as their survivability will reduce with the changes, damage output will remain high but will never cast and die in 2 hits. Devils mages can tank well in RvR but can't kill anything due to the AT/DF/MA/MD% change "fix" at wotw, this change would make them do less damage than they do today and also be easier to kill. If the changes are being implemented due to punching, there are less than 5 people who have punched to any significant degree that could be addressed individually rather than effectively wiping Dsoma. Your suggestions, such as making melee gear require INT goes to show how ridiculous this proposed change is, if you cannot see how my reply relates to your suggestions/points that's on you.
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[quote="S0RCERER"][quote="SLAYER"]Sorry but I can't see your reply to my suggestions/points there?[/quote]
Oh? I thought it was obvious that it needn't be said.
Devil mages already do a lot of damage to other Devils, their relative power vs Melee devils will reduce as their survivability will reduce with the changes, damage output will remain high but will never cast and die in 2 hits.
Devils mages can tank well in RvR but can't kill anything due to the AT/DF/MA/MD% change "fix" at wotw, this change would make them do less damage than they do today and also be easier to kill.
If the changes are being implemented due to punching, there are less than 5 people who have punched to any significant degree that could be addressed individually rather than effectively wiping Dsoma.
Your suggestions, such as making melee gear require INT goes to show how ridiculous this proposed change is, if you cannot see how my reply relates to your suggestions/points that's on you.[/quote]
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#45 2017/01/08 14:43:17 |
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