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S0RCERER |
"FINITO"Classes are not balanced and we want to fix that. This completely contradicts what Ghost says on the issue (The Dsoma GM?). Additionally, why not give the Hsoma treatment where the handful (less than 10) players affected can reallocate their stats. Humans were given this option for DEX, they didn't have the entire of Hsoma effectively wiped. FAO iSylver: Are those stats comparing of the same class vs same class? They hold no weight as someone who punched would gain 20+ int in a level (which is a stat that doesn't help in anyway) vs someone who didn't punch, inflating the difference without having any real world effect. E.g. Swordsman A punched to cap, Swordsman B didn't punch. Both cap with 235str and 160dex, Swordsman A also caps 230int, Swordsman B caps with 90int. In a 1v1 environment, both swordsmen have the exact same chance at winning vs eachother, however in your tables, Swordsman A would show as having 140 more stat points.
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[quote="S0RCERER"][quote="FINITO"]Classes are not balanced and we want to fix that.[/quote]
This completely contradicts what Ghost says on the issue (The Dsoma GM?).
Additionally, why not give the Hsoma treatment where the handful (less than 10) players affected can reallocate their stats. Humans were given this option for DEX, they didn't have the entire of Hsoma effectively wiped.
FAO iSylver: Are those stats comparing of the same class vs same class? They hold no weight as someone who punched would gain 20+ int in a level (which is a stat that doesn't help in anyway) vs someone who didn't punch, inflating the difference without having any real world effect.
E.g. Swordsman A punched to cap, Swordsman B didn't punch.
Both cap with 235str and 160dex, Swordsman A also caps 230int, Swordsman B caps with 90int.
In a 1v1 environment, both swordsmen have the exact same chance at winning vs eachother, however in your tables, Swordsman A would show as having 140 more stat points.[/quote]
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#76 2017/01/08 17:04:28 |
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DEIMOS |
Having a worse char for accepting you're hunting easier mobs is one thing but trying to second guess everyone else for balance is wrong
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#77 2017/01/08 17:30:23 |
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SLAYER |
"S0RCERER""FINITO"Classes are not balanced and we want to fix that. Swordsman A uses proc. And no removing proc just to favour yourself (edit deleted as was a flame) isn't an option. Also what about in RVR? or at gvw /sswhen holding the stone? Rambo has 35 more int than most sword chars and it does help. Can we stop isolating situations and look at the bigger picture?
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[quote="SLAYER"][quote="S0RCERER"][quote="FINITO"]Classes are not balanced and we want to fix that.[/quote]
This completely contradicts what Ghost says on the issue (The Dsoma GM?).
Additionally, why not give the Hsoma treatment where the handful (less than 10) players affected can reallocate their stats. Humans were given this option for DEX, they didn't have the entire of Hsoma effectively wiped.
FAO iSylver: Are those stats comparing of the same class vs same class? They hold no weight as someone who punched would gain 20+ int in a level (which is a stat that doesn't help in anyway) vs someone who didn't punch, inflating the difference without having any real world effect.
E.g. Swordsman A punched to cap, Swordsman B didn't punch.
Both cap with 235str and 160dex, Swordsman A also caps 230int, Swordsman B caps with 90int.
In a 1v1 environment, both swordsmen have the exact same chance at winning vs eachother however in your tables, Swordsman A would show as having 140 more stat points.[/quote]
Swordsman A uses proc.
And no removing proc just to favour yourself (edit deleted as was a flame) isn't an option.
Also what about in RVR? or at gvw /sswhen holding the stone? Rambo has 35 more int than most sword chars and it does help.
Can we stop isolating situations and look at the bigger picture?[/quote]
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#78 2017/01/08 17:32:04 |
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SLAYER |
"DEIMOS"Having a worse char for accepting you're hunting easier mobs is one thing but trying to second guess everyone else for balance is wrong I don't follow? in the past and in the future mob choices will change as the game evolves...so it's not really a choice unless you create your char when the final set of mobs are introduced (who knows when that will be). and it's not second guessing when testing and tweaking can be done!
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[quote="SLAYER"][quote="DEIMOS"]Having a worse char for accepting you're hunting easier mobs is one thing but trying to second guess everyone else for balance is wrong[/quote]
I don't follow? in the past and in the future mob choices will change as the game evolves...so it's not really a choice unless you create your char when the final set of mobs are introduced (who knows when that will be). and it's not second guessing when testing and tweaking can be done![/quote]
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#79 2017/01/08 17:35:51 |
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DEIMOS |
I mean allocating within the 'limits' not the limits themselves, and outside of the apai/hogs addition I can't see anywhere that would have huge changes?
You won't easily be able to tweak anything to get a balance in game, and yes you could trial things on test server but that doesn't give anyone the ability to go complete opposite in game Spear or axe would have to sacrifice str/con near down to sword levels to fill their wis to counteract the proc side of a high int archer/nuk which defeats the point in axe at that point, anyway this will be my last comment as decisions are already made and I feel this is just pages of everyone going in circles :)
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[quote="DEIMOS"]I mean allocating within the 'limits' not the limits themselves, and outside of the apai/hogs addition I can't see anywhere that would have huge changes?
You won't easily be able to tweak anything to get a balance in game, and yes you could trial things on test server but that doesn't give anyone the ability to go complete opposite in game
Spear or axe would have to sacrifice str/con near down to sword levels to fill their wis to counteract the proc side of a high int archer/nuk which defeats the point in axe at that point, anyway this will be my last comment as decisions are already made and I feel this is just pages of everyone going in circles :)[/quote]
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#80 2017/01/08 17:50:12 |
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S0RCERER |
"ISYLVER""DEIMOS"That's quoted on punched chars, of punched chars are removed from the equation how does it look This isn't true. Any melee devil with more than 90/100 int is a character who has punched. "SLAYER"Can we stop isolating situations and look at the bigger picture? This entire rework (wipe) is because of an isolated situation... A false perception of imbalance.
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[quote="S0RCERER"][quote="ISYLVER"][quote="DEIMOS"]That's quoted on punched chars, of punched chars are removed from the equation how does it look[/quote]
We can't see for sure who has punched and for how long all we can see is the disparity in total stats. [/quote]
This isn't true.
Any melee devil with more than 90/100 int is a character who has punched.
[quote="SLAYER"]Can we stop isolating situations and look at the bigger picture?[/quote]
This entire rework (wipe) is because of an isolated situation... A false perception of imbalance.[/quote]
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#81 2017/01/08 17:56:45 |
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LUPISCUS |
how about.... let all d-soma keep their current equips... wipe every1 back to lev 1 ..and restart with the new stat allocation system in place ..with say 5 or 10x server speed till 100.
No1 loses any of their hard earned items, and can grow back into them with relative ease. ( err no idea really, just an uneducated suggestion ;p) Oh..and let them keep their current crafting skills ofc
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[quote="LUPISCUS"]how about.... let all d-soma keep their current equips... wipe every1 back to lev 1 ..and restart with the new stat allocation system in place ..with say 5 or 10x server speed till 100.
No1 loses any of their hard earned items, and can grow back into them with relative ease.
( err no idea really, just an uneducated suggestion ;p)
Oh..and let them keep their current crafting skills ofc[/quote]
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#82 2017/01/08 17:57:52 |
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_JR_ |
Does the points include cha on your table isylver?
What about a quest to gain 2int each level untill a certain cap, pre level 100? Could run along side your xp each level- e.g kill 5000 wbm and 1 blood akah ( any boss?) |
#83 2017/01/08 17:58:42 |
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S0RCERER |
"LUPISCUS"how about.... let all d-soma keep their current equips... wipe every1 back to lev 1 ..and restart with the new stat allocation system in place ..with say 5 or 10x server speed till 100. Lupi, you haven't read the proposed idea. It will effectively wipe all characters and their items will become useless all in the name of trying to balance level's 100 to 105, which could be achieved by changing nothing at all and making set stat gains above level 100.
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[quote="S0RCERER"][quote="LUPISCUS"]how about.... let all d-soma keep their current equips... wipe every1 back to lev 1 ..and restart with the new stat allocation system in place ..with say 5 or 10x server speed till 100.
No1 loses any of their hard earned items, and can grow back into them with relative ease.
( err no idea really, just an uneducated suggestion ;p)
Oh..and let them keep their current crafting skills ofc[/quote]
Lupi, you haven't read the proposed idea.
It will effectively wipe all characters and their items will become useless all in the name of trying to balance level's 100 to 105, which could be achieved by changing nothing at all and making set stat gains above level 100.[/quote]
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#84 2017/01/08 18:00:34 |
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LUPISCUS |
hmm i half read all this...... sounds well complex tbh..... i go back to 3 copper 1 leather.. all im good for x
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#85 2017/01/08 18:02:16 |
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JARAGOONDOO |
"S0RCERER""ISYLVER""DEIMOS"That's quoted on punched chars, of punched chars are removed from the equation how does it look Yes, we know if someone has punched or not punched by looking at their INT, but if that's all you're going by you're being really naive. At what point did they punch? At what stat bonus ranges? Punching on an archer later is more effective (that way the stay at a lower STR to stay in better stat ranges), whereas punching on a spear or axe it is more effective to punch early. It's sounds impossible to me unless the game has been tracking exactly what monsters we have killed at what stats since day 1 (and even then, going through all that data would be a mission I'm not sure the GMs would want to do).
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[quote="JARAGOONDOO"][quote="S0RCERER"][quote="ISYLVER"][quote="DEIMOS"]That's quoted on punched chars, of punched chars are removed from the equation how does it look[/quote]
We can't see for sure who has punched and for how long all we can see is the disparity in total stats. [/quote]
This isn't true.
Any melee devil with more than 100 int is a character who has punched.[/quote]
Yes, we know if someone has punched or not punched by looking at their INT, but if that's all you're going by you're being really naive.
At what point did they punch? At what stat bonus ranges? Punching on an archer later is more effective (that way the stay at a lower STR to stay in better stat ranges), whereas punching on a spear or axe it is more effective to punch early.
It's sounds impossible to me unless the game has been tracking exactly what monsters we have killed at what stats since day 1 (and even then, going through all that data would be a mission I'm not sure the GMs would want to do).[/quote]
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#86 2017/01/08 18:03:37 |
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S0RCERER |
"JARAGOONDOO"Yes, we know if someone has punched or not punched by looking at their INT, but if that's all you're going by you're being really naive. An archer has punched vs an archer who hasn't punched would have a difference in STR of no more than 10. Is this worth wiping the entire of Dsoma? A knuckler who has punched vs a knuckler who hasn't punched also has the same STR difference except they would lose DEX. You make the whole situation sound like it's out of control and too hard to work out, it is you who is trying to complicate something that is incredibly simple... Much like everything in Soma.
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[quote="S0RCERER"][quote="JARAGOONDOO"]Yes, we know if someone has punched or not punched by looking at their INT, but if that's all you're going by you're being really naive.[/quote]
An archer has punched vs an archer who hasn't punched would have a difference in STR of no more than 10.
Is this worth wiping the entire of Dsoma?
A knuckler who has punched vs a knuckler who hasn't punched also has the same STR difference except they would lose DEX.
You make the whole situation sound like it's out of control and too hard to work out, it is you who is trying to complicate something that is incredibly simple... Much like everything in Soma.[/quote]
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#87 2017/01/08 18:05:30 |
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OPENTHEDOOR |
As someone who was one of 4 offered (style, Plum, Acaelus and coos) who got offered a stat change but there where many others over 130 str who didn't get offered it Sorcerer, and where "screwed" as a result.
Without playing dsoma I don't see why set stats after 100 would be a problem, but there is obviously a reason for it. People who have punched I feel should get something back, I don't know what, but putting thousands of hours in for squat is so demoralising. From a player base point of view you don't want them leaving and I fear they all will without something back.
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[quote="OPENTHEDOOR"]As someone who was one of 4 offered (style, Plum, Acaelus and coos) who got offered a stat change but there where many others over 130 str who didn't get offered it Sorcerer, and where "screwed" as a result.
Without playing dsoma I don't see why set stats after 100 would be a problem, but there is obviously a reason for it.
People who have punched I feel should get something back, I don't know what, but putting thousands of hours in for squat is so demoralising. From a player base point of view you don't want them leaving and I fear they all will without something back. [/quote]
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#88 2017/01/08 18:10:33 |
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ISYLVER [Staff] |
Note there is no trend to the disparity in stats it's certainly mixed through the classes (when I'm at my office next I can show a disparity in each class).
JR nope it only includes str wis int con dex |
#89 2017/01/08 18:14:45 |
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ISYLVER [Staff] |
Sword:
875 836 815 808 807 Bow 919 916 915 875 864 856 831 824 823 807 794 793 781 Axe: 1037 834 834 827 825 813 811 Knuckle: 896 812 809 797 796 792 788 Spear: 840 823 813 Staff: 987 986 (They are both heavily punched characters) |
#90 2017/01/08 18:20:09 |
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