| Author | Content | Date |
|---|---|---|
|
PATHOLOGIST |
Since you are changing dsoma completely and are giving us this new soma character, i'd like it to be a human with the gear equivalent.
|
#106 2017/01/08 20:25:09 |
|
S0RCERER |
"ISYLVER"Still waiting to see an agreeable solution from yourself. I respect where you stand but disagree with you wholeheartedly. No, insane would be making a change that doesn't need to be made just for the sake of having invested time in making it. Besides, you're looking at it the wrong way. For whatever reason you are asking me to convince you for an alternative solution to an idea that makes no sense in the first place. Finito just said the idea is to have more control over balance as in his mind (someone who doesn't play), the game is unbalanced. iSylver says the stat rework must happen as it's the best idea out of the potential solutions... Yet to have a solution, you would need to have a problem... There isn't one. Ghostlord seems to be incredibly silent on this as he has previously said on many occasions that the current situation is far more balanced than Dsoma has ever been. I reiterate that I will give the new system a go, but the entire idea of it, as has been pointed out, brings in far more issues than it purports to fix. Not only that, as previously mentioned completely ruins tens of thousands of hours of play-time, something you seem to overlook with this grandiose idea. I'd be one of those quite happy to be given a human with stats of my choice if you go ahead with ruining Dsoma this way. It seems that no matter what, you want to go ahead with this patch simply because you put time into it, not that it makes any sense at all.
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="S0RCERER"][quote="ISYLVER"]Still waiting to see an agreeable solution from yourself. I respect where you stand but disagree with you wholeheartedly.
This thread is the definition of insanity. We're going around in circles. When we release the server test it, try PVP try combos etc. [/quote]
No, insane would be making a change that doesn't need to be made just for the sake of having invested time in making it.
Besides, you're looking at it the wrong way.
For whatever reason you are asking me to convince you for an alternative solution to an idea that makes no sense in the first place.
Finito just said the idea is to have more control over balance as in his mind (someone who doesn't play), the game is unbalanced.
iSylver says the stat rework must happen as it's the best idea out of the potential solutions... Yet to have a solution, you would need to have a problem... There isn't one.
Ghostlord seems to be incredibly silent on this as he has previously said on many occasions that the current situation is far more balanced than Dsoma has ever been.
I reiterate that I will give the new system a go, but the entire idea of it, as has been pointed out, brings in far more issues than it purports to fix. Not only that, as previously mentioned completely ruins tens of thousands of hours of play-time, something you seem to overlook with this grandiose idea.
I'd be one of those quite happy to be given a human with stats of my choice if you go ahead with ruining Dsoma this way.
It seems that no matter what, you want to go ahead with this patch simply because you put time into it, not that it makes any sense at all.[/quote]
|
#107 2017/01/08 20:41:23 |
|
ISYLVER [Staff] |
Sure you can have a level 1 with 10 in each stat with 3 points to spend.
You're constant negativity and attitude has lost my attention and good will. You may not like it, you may not want it but the team collectively want to test this. Sincerely your attitude has lost respect I once had for you. It is absolutely fine to disagree but do so in a constructive manner. Many thanks
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="ISYLVER"]Sure you can have a level 1 with 10 in each stat with 3 points to spend.
You're constant negativity and attitude has lost my attention and good will. You may not like it, you may not want it but the team collectively want to test this. Sincerely your attitude has lost respect I once had for you.
It is absolutely fine to disagree but do so in a constructive manner.
Many thanks[/quote]
|
#108 2017/01/08 20:59:57 |
|
S0RCERER |
"ISYLVER"Sure you can have a level 1 with 10 in each stat with 3 points to spend. Constant negativity and attitude? Opposing an idea that makes no sense? You don't expect someone to react when you propose a change that will ruin thousands of hours of play-time? I am disagreeing in a constructive manner, you want me to disagree by agreeing... The idea is bonkers, why should I agree to it? You still haven't said what is broken that needs fixing.
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="S0RCERER"][quote="ISYLVER"]Sure you can have a level 1 with 10 in each stat with 3 points to spend.
You're constant negativity and attitude has lost my attention and good will. You may not like it, you may not want it but the team collectively want to test this. Sincerely your attitude has lost respect I once had for you.
It is absolutely fine to disagree but do so in a constructive manner.
Many thanks[/quote]
Constant negativity and attitude? Opposing an idea that makes no sense?
You don't expect someone to react when you propose a change that will ruin thousands of hours of play-time?
I am disagreeing in a constructive manner, you want me to disagree by agreeing... The idea is bonkers, why should I agree to it?
You still haven't said what is broken that needs fixing.[/quote]
|
#109 2017/01/08 21:02:55 |
|
ARM1 |
Considerable amount of hours farming - you're not losing any gear.
In a way you only have yourselves to blame for the change. The day Intheface goes to Wotw and tanks all off Hsoma without curing weaken and you think that's okay because he put the hours in. Even on Esoma there were very few Devils who could take more than 3 hits - this was HP related. Difference being every devil had a pot macro to compensate and most used +20s. I have no idea what the change will bring but it's not game breaking - the game is broken and the initial buzz of the little patch is waining. The game owes you nothing - any advantage from those stats boosts has been well and truly used over the years and it works both ways you don't owe the game anything either - if you don't like it don't bother. Some Saying "I quit and now I'm going to make a human" - wow what a deep threat, "Hey dan you really upset me, you really lost my confidence, you're logic is shit but I'm gonna make a new char on the same game." The last thing I'd want to do though if I was capped would be to log on and level on same mobs, nothing would appeal to me less than that - so you're right in a sense about time spent on this and priorities. BUT we can only try right? It IS game changing, it's NOT game breaking. Leaving things as they are you'd be as well getting rid of Dsoma, maybe the same fate awaits it after this patch or maybe it will be a change for the better and make a decent alternative to Hsoma rather than a pointless one. I don't think the class balance is far off currently but I do think RvR was made a mockery off, and it's that in part you have to thank for this nerf.
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="ARM1"]Considerable amount of hours farming - you're not losing any gear.
In a way you only have yourselves to blame for the change. The day Intheface goes to Wotw and tanks all off Hsoma without curing weaken and you think that's okay because he put the hours in.
Even on Esoma there were very few Devils who could take more than 3 hits - this was HP related.
Difference being every devil had a pot macro to compensate and most used +20s.
I have no idea what the change will bring but it's not game breaking - the game is broken and the initial buzz of the little patch is waining.
The game owes you nothing - any advantage from those stats boosts has been well and truly used over the years and it works both ways you don't owe the game anything either - if you don't like it don't bother.
Some Saying "I quit and now I'm going to make a human" - wow what a deep threat, "Hey dan you really upset me, you really lost my confidence, you're logic is shit but I'm gonna make a new char on the same game."
The last thing I'd want to do though if I was capped would be to log on and level on same mobs, nothing would appeal to me less than that - so you're right in a sense about time spent on this and priorities.
BUT we can only try right?
It IS game changing, it's NOT game breaking.
Leaving things as they are you'd be as well getting rid of Dsoma, maybe the same fate awaits it after this patch or maybe it will be a change for the better and make a decent alternative to Hsoma rather than a pointless one.
I don't think the class balance is far off currently but I do think RvR was made a mockery off, and it's that in part you have to thank for this nerf.[/quote]
|
#110 2017/01/09 09:08:58 |
|
ASDADASD |
The same way how Intheface tanked literally every human at WoTW, Concuss/DazTheMe did nearly the same thing on test, wasn't that the time to ring an alarm? Didn't they expect more punch characters to rise on a server with a higher usercount?
|
#111 2017/01/09 09:42:45 |
|
ISYLVER [Staff] |
Not sure what the above post achieves? In hindsight should we have acted quicker to prevent this? Yes. Did we have the architecture and ability to do so? no.
|
#112 2017/01/09 09:48:19 |
|
S0RCERER |
"ARM1"Considerable amount of hours farming - you're not losing any gear. I am not intheface, I do not have any punch characters and thus am not part of the problem. It is easy to identify which characters need stat corrections, any melee devil at any level with above 100 int have punched. Give them the same treatment humans had with dex. Considering Dan already has rough stat totals of level 100s, it would be even easier to do than the Hsoma one. I never threatened anyone with anything, I simply requested that if Dan wishes to change Dsoma beyond recognition, it would be nice to be given a human seeing as it'll ruin all of my characters and gear on Dsoma. He refused, I'll be gone for good. That's not a threat, it's his game, I'm sure he'll get on fine without me.
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="S0RCERER"][quote="ARM1"]Considerable amount of hours farming - you're not losing any gear.
In a way you only have yourselves to blame for the change. The day Intheface goes to Wotw and tanks all off Hsoma without curing weaken and you think that's okay because he put the hours in.
Even on Esoma there were very few Devils who could take more than 3 hits - this was HP related.
Difference being every devil had a pot macro to compensate and most used +20s.
I have no idea what the change will bring but it's not game breaking - the game is broken and the initial buzz of the little patch is waining.
The game owes you nothing - any advantage from those stats boosts has been well and truly used over the years and it works both ways you don't owe the game anything either - if you don't like it don't bother.
Some Saying "I quit and now I'm going to make a human" - wow what a deep threat, "Hey dan you really upset me, you really lost my confidence, you're logic is shit but I'm gonna make a new char on the same game."
The last thing I'd want to do though if I was capped would be to log on and level on same mobs, nothing would appeal to me less than that - so you're right in a sense about time spent on this and priorities.
BUT we can only try right?
It IS game changing, it's NOT game breaking.
Leaving things as they are you'd be as well getting rid of Dsoma, maybe the same fate awaits it after this patch or maybe it will be a change for the better and make a decent alternative to Hsoma rather than a pointless one.
I don't think the class balance is far off currently but I do think RvR was made a mockery off, and it's that in part you have to thank for this nerf.[/quote]
I am not intheface, I do not have any punch characters and thus am not part of the problem.
It is easy to identify which characters need stat corrections, any melee devil at any level with above 100 int have punched.
Give them the same treatment humans had with dex.
Considering Dan already has rough stat totals of level 100s, it would be even easier to do than the Hsoma one.
I never threatened anyone with anything, I simply requested that if Dan wishes to change Dsoma beyond recognition, it would be nice to be given a human seeing as it'll ruin all of my characters and gear on Dsoma.
He refused, I'll be gone for good.
That's not a threat, it's his game, I'm sure he'll get on fine without me.[/quote]
|
#113 2017/01/09 13:46:40 |
|
ARM1 |
All you can do is what you think is right, I'm guessing that's what Dan is trying to do as well.
The change puts no one at an advantage - everyone will be in the same boat gear wise but to be fair a lot of these new intense tags / legendary tags made older upgraded shit look weaker anyway. I would just suggest if you do happen to try it just leave whatever you feel behind you and embrace it as a game, we all get taken in by it, wrapped up in it but at the end of the day it's an ancient free to play game. The game would do well to keep its knowledgeable players but can understand.
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="ARM1"]All you can do is what you think is right, I'm guessing that's what Dan is trying to do as well.
The change puts no one at an advantage - everyone will be in the same boat gear wise but to be fair a lot of these new intense tags / legendary tags made older upgraded shit look weaker anyway.
I would just suggest if you do happen to try it just leave whatever you feel behind you and embrace it as a game, we all get taken in by it, wrapped up in it but at the end of the day it's an ancient free to play game.
The game would do well to keep its knowledgeable players but can understand.[/quote]
|
#114 2017/01/09 14:08:13 |
|
THE_ONE |
The solution to me seems to be so simple, keep punching as part of the game just put a cap on int/wis of like i.e 130 for meele and range (and what ever you seem necessary for mages for str/con) then after 130 int/wis it just stops (much like archers can't get 214.7 dex), you can still punch for addition dex (or str for archers of course) if you choose to but at a risk of losing out on your class's main stat
This way chars that I and others like to make make (intheface) can still get what they want (making a hybrid) but become so much ineffective at taking stones but with a slight advantage in rvr events but in no way as effective as it once Anyone who claims punching is to "hard" especially under the new server rates or with the amount of att gear you can acquire deserves to have that slight disadvantage (much like if humans think meh 24 con is enough)
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="THE_ONE"]The solution to me seems to be so simple, keep punching as part of the game just put a cap on int/wis of like i.e 130 for meele and range (and what ever you seem necessary for mages for str/con) then after 130 int/wis it just stops (much like archers can't get 214.7 dex), you can still punch for addition dex (or str for archers of course) if you choose to but at a risk of losing out on your class's main stat
This way chars that I and others like to make make (intheface) can still get what they want (making a hybrid) but become so much ineffective at taking stones but with a slight advantage in rvr events but in no way as effective as it once
Anyone who claims punching is to "hard" especially under the new server rates or with the amount of att gear you can acquire deserves to have that slight disadvantage (much like if humans think meh 24 con is enough)[/quote]
|
#115 2017/01/09 14:21:03 |
|
THEHOOD |
THE_ONE I stopped gaining dex a good few levels before the cap - I punched about 15%-20% to test if that made a difference but still gained no dex. So whether it was changed or just broken I don't know but it felt a bit of a kick in the face to not gain a main stat - especially considering my char relies on its dex advantage over str but punched chars probably still have more dex as theirs increased above where mine got stuck. So in that instance I'm glad this patch will fix that discrepancy but as I said before I think class vs class the balance currently is pretty good. From an axe POV I think they need extra points for CON, probably true of Spear too (or you let those classes start the game with a con buff, they'd still need STR for armours presumably) . In the same way that if Dex was 2 stats Knuckle and Bow would need extra points. That's just my feelings on it at a glance.
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="THEHOOD"][quote=THE_ONE]
The solution to me seems to be so simple, keep punching as part of the game just put a cap on int/wis of like i.e 130 for meele and range (and what ever you seem necessary for mages for str/con) then after 130 int/wis it just stops (much like archers can't get 214.7 dex), you can still punch for addition dex (or str for archers of course) if you choose to but at a risk of losing out on your class's main stat
[/quote]
I stopped gaining dex a good few levels before the cap - I punched about 15%-20% to test if that made a difference but still gained no dex. So whether it was changed or just broken I don't know but it felt a bit of a kick in the face to not gain a main stat - especially considering my char relies on its dex advantage over str but punched chars probably still have more dex as theirs increased above where mine got stuck.
So in that instance I'm glad this patch will fix that discrepancy but as I said before I think class vs class the balance currently is pretty good.
From an axe POV I think they need extra points for CON, probably true of Spear too (or you let those classes start the game with a con buff, they'd still need STR for armours presumably)
.
In the same way that if Dex was 2 stats Knuckle and Bow would need extra points.
That's just my feelings on it at a glance.
[/quote]
|
#116 2017/01/09 15:09:00 |
|
JARAGOONDOO |
"THEHOOD" Yeah, i thought this too. We either need more points to spend or all the guides need lowering. EDIT: By "we" I mean STR classes need more points to spend (if DEX isn't being split into 2 stats, that is).
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="JARAGOONDOO"][quote="THEHOOD"]
From an axe POV I think they need extra points for CON, probably true of Spear too (or you let those classes start the game with a con buff, they'd still need STR for armours presumably)
.
In the same way that if Dex was 2 stats Knuckle and Bow would need extra points.
[/quote]
Yeah, i thought this too. We either need more points to spend or all the guides need lowering.
EDIT: By "we" I mean STR classes need more points to spend (if DEX isn't being split into 2 stats, that is).[/quote]
|
#117 2017/01/09 15:31:03 |
|
SLAYER |
"THEHOOD"THE_ONE 187s con stopped at 200 as well I believe (which doesn't happen anymore), dex stops at whatever it lands on just over 200. So people anticipated this (especially once new end game mobs were in game) and punched as much as they could to get max str/int/wis with capped out dex. Punching was slower before attack accessories/faster rates etc so wasn't as viable because of that as well, even monster gave up when he got to hogs as it was about 2 hours per % back then, before their rates were increased.
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="SLAYER"][quote="THEHOOD"][quote=THE_ONE]
The solution to me seems to be so simple, keep punching as part of the game just put a cap on int/wis of like i.e 130 for meele and range (and what ever you seem necessary for mages for str/con) then after 130 int/wis it just stops (much like archers can't get 214.7 dex), you can still punch for addition dex (or str for archers of course) if you choose to but at a risk of losing out on your class's main stat
[/quote]
I stopped gaining dex a good few levels before the cap - I punched about 15%-20% to test if that made a difference but still gained no dex. So whether it was changed or just broken I don't know but it felt a bit of a kick in the face to not gain a main stat - especially considering my char relies on its dex advantage over str but punched chars probably still have more dex as theirs increased above where mine got stuck.
So in that instance I'm glad this patch will fix that discrepancy but as I said before I think class vs class the balance currently is pretty good.
From an axe POV I think they need extra points for CON, probably true of Spear too (or you let those classes start the game with a con buff, they'd still need STR for armours presumably)
.
In the same way that if Dex was 2 stats Knuckle and Bow would need extra points.
That's just my feelings on it at a glance.
[/quote]
187s con stopped at 200 as well I believe (which doesn't happen anymore), dex stops at whatever it lands on just over 200. So people anticipated this (especially once new end game mobs were in game) and punched as much as they could to get max str/int/wis with capped out dex. Punching was slower before attack accessories/faster rates etc so wasn't as viable because of that as well, even monster gave up when he got to hogs as it was about 2 hours per % back then, before their rates were increased.[/quote]
|
#118 2017/01/09 17:02:32 |
|
DEIMOS |
Just add the second Dex stat otherwise people will start moaning they don't get as many points but whatever, I still don't agree that mellee chars should have any form of magic attack, if you want both you should play hsoma. Same as 'balance' meaning everyone has similar stats, same reason majority of hsoma uses axe/bow
Never understood if these are the two extremes why sword that falls in the middle(like dsoma) wouldn't give the same reaults
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="DEIMOS"]Just add the second Dex stat otherwise people will start moaning they don't get as many points but whatever, I still don't agree that mellee chars should have any form of magic attack, if you want both you should play hsoma. Same as 'balance' meaning everyone has similar stats, same reason majority of hsoma uses axe/bow
Never understood if these are the two extremes why sword that falls in the middle(like dsoma) wouldn't give the same reaults[/quote]
|
#119 2017/01/09 17:06:30 |
|
_JR_ |
So gathering from this post so far...
There is only slight balance issues between class's, mainly the difference between bow and axe.. A big issue towards rvr balance due to punched chars int.. And mages are broken... str/dex also % speed (need to punch to compete) *just my idea* Test the stat swaps for con/wis for balance between rvr and class's if its unbalanced still, revert to how it is now and give all bows x% boost knux x% boost. Split the f10 %... 100% md 50% defense (humans would hurt str attack ) Add a few quests for mages to give str/dex boosts or change their stat gains per level in db table Carry on with stat allocation post 100
PM
Reply
Quote
[quote="_JR_"]So gathering from this post so far...
There is only slight balance issues between class's, mainly the difference between bow and axe..
A big issue towards rvr balance due to punched chars int..
And mages are broken... str/dex also % speed (need to punch to compete)
*just my idea*
Test the stat swaps for con/wis for balance between rvr and class's if its unbalanced still, revert to how it is now and give all bows x% boost knux x% boost.
Split the f10 %... 100% md 50% defense (humans would hurt str attack )
Add a few quests for mages to give str/dex boosts or change their stat gains per level in db table
Carry on with stat allocation post 100
[/quote]
|
#120 2017/01/09 17:32:01 |
Please sign in with one of your characters to reply