The Forum

[quote="NEOXIAN"]And your point about incoming damage? Slow is overpowered, so is being magic range, so is your hp, blind, confuse and play with skill and anyone's damage Barr the top devils wil be negated... When have you seen zyzz, yourself, plum Leo or anyone else die? Never. Humans have this compulsion of comparing top devils to low level retard humans no idea why. If you bought the people I just listed to conti when I'm hunting kl and hit me with a stone and I couldn't get a tp quick enough I would be dead no sweat all day long and I'm level 71. [/quote]

[quote="SHATTERSTAR"][quote="FUJITORA"]Its more about devils outgoing damage at 100% vs humans on 50% is ridiculously more than when you compare a humans damage on 100% vs a devil on 50% (When each race has conti) rather than how much damage the "raiding" race is capable of doing. Anyone that says humans have an equal chance of killing devils (Regardless of how many numbers humans turn up with) on their map as they do on ours is delusional.[/quote] Meet Neoxian, sometimes I wonder if he plays the same game as us.[/quote]

[quote="SHATTERSTAR"][quote="ISYLVER"]We will likely trial something along the lines of: Raiding % is 12.5% less than wotw_percentage for that race. I.e. Dsoma on 65% would be on 52.5% raiding. Hsoma on 100% would be 87.5% raiding. And tweak values from there.[/quote] Sounds like a good start. Thanks for looking at it.[/quote]

[quote="REHLINA"][quote="ISYLVER"]We will likely trial something along the lines of: Raiding % is 12.5% less than wotw_percentage for that race. I.e. Dsoma on 65% would be on 52.5% raiding. Hsoma on 100% would be 87.5% raiding. And tweak values from there.[/quote] any chance to move hoppers away from hsoma portal then, be suicide to hunt them on conti where they are now. [/quote]

[quote="TOLIC"]we do need something to make us want revenge at raiding conti when devils own it absolute no point atm[/quote]

[quote="JARAGOONDOO"][quote="ISYLVER"]We will likely trial something along the lines of: Raiding % is 12.5% less than wotw_percentage for that race. I.e. Dsoma on 65% would be on 52.5% raiding. Hsoma on 100% would be 87.5% raiding. And tweak values from there.[/quote] Sounds good :)[/quote]

[quote="GRAVIJA"][quote="ISYLVER"]We will likely trial something along the lines of: Raiding % is 12.5% less than wotw_percentage for that race. I.e. Dsoma on 65% would be on 52.5% raiding. Hsoma on 100% would be 87.5% raiding. And tweak values from there.[/quote] I like that kind of idea, but obviously being a devil I will have to critique those 2 percentage examples. I understand a devil will never be able to raid on Human conti at 87.5% that'd just be silly, but also I feel the difference in percentage (35%) is far to great. Not only in a pvp scenario but on 87.5% you will see humans actually using devil conti to hunt on, even with losing 12.5% humans can take full advantage of conti AB's ect as i've always considered these one of the best mobs ingame and would be great for Human stats even after 100+ str. Kharil lizards would also be great for int and more likely you would see high level devils tanking their humans with frostwind for ridiculous gains. If the losers of conti are able to hunt on the opposing races conti with as good if not better stats, it will give them even less reason to win/attend WOTW. Like I said I like the idea and understand its just a rough guideline of what can be done. But personally I dont think its practical to see any opposing race on any higher than 70-75% on conti. I'll finish with this; the good thing is that even is the figures are slightly of the first time, there is always scope for change without game breaking consequences :). [/quote]

[quote="S0RCERER"]It's not that beneficial Grav. Let's make a few comparisons: Altered Beast have 137 STR. Beast Lord Guardian have 140 STR. At 100% an AB would grant less % and less STR. On 85% this would only be more evident, especially after AB's 30% level speed nerf. -- Kharil Lizards have 123 INT. Prismatic Shadow have 119 INT. KL can be tanked by a devil and then massed by a human... But the massing would kill the devil and it's easier to mass Prism which would also grant faster INT and faster % as you'd be on 85%. -- Figures here to help illustrate:- Conti AB have 80 defence If a human has 190 average attack (95+str with Ripper) on 100% they would hit the AB for 110dmg a hit, AB have 1150hp, you'd take on average 11 hits to kill. on 85% you would have 162 attack making you deal 82 damage a hit, now taking on average 15 hits to kill. A reduction in 15% damage slows down killing speed by just under 30%. This isn't even taking into consideration the fact that you'd also be taking a lot more damage. TLDR: Hunting on the opposing race's conti to benefit stat gain and stat gain speed simply isn't going to be worth it unless you are on 100%, regardless of how you go about doing it. The only exception to the rule would be War Beast Miner as their stats are miles above any Hsoma (or Dsoma) counterpart. I still think WBM should've never been implemented on this server.[/quote]

[quote="GRAVIJA"]I think warbeast miners shouldnt be implemented in conti. Even with your above post s0rc. I still think a loss of 12.5% on conti is just not enough. Losing around 50% of my stats on conti as I stand puts my in a position to do <30 dmg to anyone that hunts BG or similar. So therefore I have never truly raided on grav with the intention of being able to kill someone on conti. I understand humans have a disadvantage at the moment, especially In strength/dex terms but also make up for it with int and numbers (if they so choose to). With Dsoma as it is, the change only stands to benefit humans, further taking away from Dsoma and the motivation to continue with levelling a Dsoma character. Like I said before I understand this is all talk at the moment, but if we were to see humans on 87.5% on devil conti, lets just say, it would be a shame.[/quote]

[quote="ESKO"]Fixed rates should just be implemented.. Not all this % calculation from a war? A war % is based on mass groups of players doing damage, not a single person wanting to raid an opposing map. The new war system has already crippled most PVP and made most of Dsoma go inactive, including myself. Devils are never going to see the day they can attend the war at + 70% of their stats and this isnt due to us being more 'Overpowered' its due to attendance rates and people not even caring about the war that have a big part to play in this. Atm raiding is non-existant unless u have a big group of people, just put devils on 75% and humans on 90% raiding and its job done. IMHO if something isnt done fairly quickly, ur just going to have a completely dead Dsoma rather than a really quiet one, then ur just left with a bunch of hsoma whiners which will eventually all quit of boredom soon enough after. my 2 cents, flame me all u want and TY for the COD-M shatter, its sitting comfy in the warehouse.[/quote]

[quote="S0RCERER"]I don't mind humans raiding on 87.5%. What I object to is devils being on 52.5% I'd be open to testing it, sure as hell would beat there being no RvR at all. As it stands, RvR is shit - takes more than 9 devils to kill a human if they're prepared even if that human is substantially weaker than the attacking devils. If anything, it should be balanced around requiring 3 devils to take on 1 human while raiding human Conti and 3 humans to kill 1 devil when hunting on devil Conti. Heck, 3 devils on 1 human of similar level doesn't even happen at Wotw... But as with ESKO's post, the best solution would be to simply make Conti the defacto best place to hunt, giving [b]real[/b] incentive to participate in the war. Until real reason to attend a war is established, wars will continue to be a game of "Oh, we can't be bothered to fight, we'll wait for % to give us a free win" situation.[/quote]

[quote="GRAVIJA"]Devil raiding 67.5% Humans raiding 82.5% That I'de be willing to try.[/quote]

[quote="CARNAGE"][quote="GRAVIJA"]So therefore I have never truly raided on grav with the intention of being able to kill someone on conti.[/quote] Don't worry mate even as a dev well over level 80 I still don't raid because that's how pointless it is. Sometimes I'll have a run about on conti but that's all it really is, a run about. Not a complaint that I can't kill people on conti as I'm not bothered at all and means I don't have to bother going there and it means I save my own time. [/quote]

[quote="GANDALF"]so i havent read all the replys in the thread..... my take is we are on far to low a % to raid dev conti (with the stats they have compared to us) but i'd happily let devs have 10% more on our conti as i'd enjoy a bit of RvR (with devs who arnt my friend :P) /gandalf[/quote]