The Forum

[quote="GHOSTLORD"][quote="HOJO"]....[/quote] Don't worry, you need the dex from it more than the con. In theory I too would like to keep con as defence, but in practise this would solve a lot of issues. Sure it would create a bunch of new issues, but that's the challenge for tomorrow. No matter what change we there will always be downsides. I'm still struggling to not see a reason to do it. Thanks for the input and keep it coming! [/quote]

[quote="QUIMM"]Just a quick query, don't top end melee chars have massive int opposed to wis? Sure I remember seeing 150/160 int melee chars with circa 95-100 wis on screenies (not this server). This wouldn't make any difference at wotw as % can be adjusted manually by the team however if it were the case would mages not be massively impaired in PvP? I don't have a dsoma Mage, genuinely curious. [/quote]

[quote="GRAVIJA"]This CAN be tested without any long term detriment to Dsoma, because as previously said, this will have ZERO effect on the amount of stats you GAIN so to test it (providing no bugs were introduced) would be [b]100% REVERSABLE.[/b] Why is it fair to just assume an archer who has the highest dex, should take less damage if they actually get hit, than an axer who should be hit for the least damage but is hit for the most.[/quote]

[quote="JARAGOONDOO"]I say go ahead and trial it.[/quote]

[quote="KHASAV"]Think it's worth a test[/quote]

[quote="CARNAGE"]So what purpose would con then serve?[/quote]

[quote="GRAVIJA"]Could maybe be used for HP/MP Regen amounts, HP could be recalculated primarily around con rather than str/con/dex dunno really. [/quote]

[quote="NEOXIAN"]Then archers would have the most hp Grav as they have the highest con which defeats the purpose of lower def really!? If anything shouldn't archers be dexy, hit for lots but take big damage and have low hp? [/quote]

[quote="JARAGOONDOO"][quote="CARNAGE"]So what purpose would con then serve?[/quote] Does it need to serve a purpose? EDIT: It's not the only useless stat: INT (for physicals) and CHA.[/quote]

[quote="CARNAGE"][quote="JARAGOONDOO"][quote="CARNAGE"]So what purpose would con then serve?[/quote] Does it need to serve a purpose? EDIT: It's not the only useless stat: INT (for physicals) and CHA.[/quote] Even more reason to not have a third useless stat.[/quote]

[quote="NEOXIAN"]con for hp regen (make hp regen actually a proper feature for all classes as atm it's worthless) could then see sword 2nd having a bit more useage in pve as it didn't give as good a boost as axe 2nd as PD is awesome. charisma could be used for zonal shouting (what's the point in it being level 100 reward? pointless) 30 charisma could be pande and IC 50 charisma could be pande IC and hwan 75 charisma could be pande ic hwan and conti. this is a farmable stat due to multi logging a healer but still, would give it some purpose be it slightly gimmicky. make 120 charisma cross-world chat. [/quote]

[quote="187"][quote="NEOXIAN"] make 120 charisma cross-world chat. [/quote] Neo trust me when i say getting 120 char is pretty much im possible. I prolly have the most char of any of the devils out there and 120 would be impossible before lv 100. [/quote]

[quote="SVANHILD"]My two cents on the matter - If the proposed switching STR to be the new defense derivative stat goes through, As an axer, I'd benefit most from this change - Using myself as an example I'd be looking at gaining roughly 20 def outright. Even though its in my favor I feel that's a bit harsh. How about having defense 50% STR, 50% CON (0.5 per point.) That way the effect would be much more subtle. But i'm not really sure how the above fixes things anyway. Without changing mechanics, the problems i see are below. One of the main problems that i see with the STR classes (Axe and spear) is the fact that the current mob STR cap is [b]Very[/b] limiting for us. Currently the way it sits, we have to hold back on our STR gains by punching as to not cap out STR waaaay before level cap which we can easily do. We are deliberately nerfing our primary stat - this means when all classes line up at level 100, we have nigh on identical STR but our DEX and CON will be still way whack with each other. By the sheer design of the game, Spear and axe should have significantly more STR [b]at every point of the game[/b] to counter the lack of DEX we have. We shouldn't be forced to punch and nerf our primaries to fit to a small window that others can simply cruise into, it should be a choice, not a matter of having to. I definitely think we should already have a higher STR mob implemented for fairness to str classes. Failing the above, as suggested previously in the thread numerous times - [quote=]Could auras not be amended for the classes lacking to try and make them more appealing instead of altering how stats work? i.e. more accuracy on axes 4th (+7% maybe?) in addition to its existing A+ speed, maybe allow spears 4th to be use more frequently like 2nd and up it's power?[/quote] A bit of accuracy / guaranteed hits would do alot to alleviate the problem also. [b]TLDR;[/b] 1) Str con switch seems a bit harsh. 50/50 Str con maybe? 2) If we're going to have poop dex, let us have rocking STR. Higher Str mob so we dont cap early or are forced to punch 15 lvls. Slooooow levels 3) Failing point 2 - Accuracy needed for STR classes to be able to hit Dexy mofo's [/quote]

[quote="S0RCERER"][quote="SVANHILD"]from this change - Using myself as an example I'd be looking at gaining roughly 20 def outright. Even though its in my favor I feel that's a bit harsh. How about having defense 50% STR, 50% CON (0.5 per point.) That way the effect would be much more subtle.[/quote] What is harsh about taking 20 less damage per hit? As it stands, you've around 200 defence, an archer would have about 300 attack, dealing 100 dmg per hit to you, on average. The archer would hit close to 100% of the time. The change would mean that Archer would now deal 80 dmg per hit to you, but still hit you with the same frequency. With a health pool of 400, that'd go from killing you in 4 hits to killing you in 5. -- Not saying i'm particularly 'for' or 'against' the idea of the Con/Str swap, but to say that 20 def would be a bit harsh (in your favour) doesn't make much sense. Bare in mind that an archer of equivalent level will be rocking 30~40 more Dex than you, which is established to be infinitely more effective then Defence, by level 100 that gap will be about 80 Dex difference (and their con/str will reach 200, so we'll be back to square one).[/quote]