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HOJO |
"S0RCERERWhat is harsh about taking 20 less damage per hit? That would be great if it only affected archers, but every other class will hit for 20 less against axe too.
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[quote="HOJO"][quote="S0RCERER]What is harsh about taking 20 less damage per hit?
As it stands, you've around 200 defence, an archer would have about 300 attack, dealing 100 dmg per hit to you, on average.
The archer would hit close to 100% of the time.
The change would mean that Archer would now deal 80 dmg per hit to you, but still hit you with the same frequency.
With a health pool of 400, that'd go from killing you in 4 hits to killing you in 5.
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Not saying i'm particularly 'for' or 'against' the idea of the Con/Str swap, but to say that 20 def would be a bit harsh (in your favour) doesn't make much sense.
Bare in mind that an archer of equivalent level will be rocking 30~40 more Dex than you, which is established to be infinitely more effective then Defence, by level 100 that gap will be about 80 Dex difference (and their con/str will reach 200, so we'll be back to square one).[/quote]
That would be great if it only affected archers, but every other class will hit for 20 less against axe too.[/quote]
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#61 2014/04/14 11:37:48 |
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S0RCERER |
"HOJO"That would be great if it only affected archers, but every other class will hit for 20 less against axe too. And so to a Spearman whom has almost 360 attack at Svan's level, you'd go from hitting her for 160 to 140. Which would still mean 3 hits to kill. To a swordsman who has 340 attack, it'd go from 150 a hit to 130 a hit, again still 3 hits to kill. The only people it would really impact at Svan's level would be Knucklers and Archers, whom have 100% hit rate anyway.
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[quote="S0RCERER"][quote="HOJO"]That would be great if it only affected archers, but every other class will hit for 20 less against axe too.[/quote]
And so to a Spearman whom has almost 360 attack at Svan's level, you'd go from hitting her for 160 to 140.
Which would still mean 3 hits to kill.
To a swordsman who has 340 attack, it'd go from 150 a hit to 130 a hit, again still 3 hits to kill.
The only people it would really impact at Svan's level would be Knucklers and Archers, whom have 100% hit rate anyway.[/quote]
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#62 2014/04/14 11:41:58 |
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GHOSTLORD |
20 defence isn't a lot at all on DSoma, as S0rcerer is saying. I don't see people hitting less on axers as a problem. In fact, I see people hitting (yes, yes, I know, when they do) archers for more a pro.
the only downside I could think off for the STR change is that mages would get slightly more damage. However, this too is only a small number.
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[quote="GHOSTLORD"]20 defence isn't a lot at all on DSoma, as S0rcerer is saying. I don't see people hitting less on axers as a problem. In fact, I see people hitting (yes, yes, I know, when they do) archers for more a pro.
the only downside I could think off for the STR change is that mages would get slightly more damage. However, this too is only a small number.[/quote]
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#63 2014/04/14 11:46:28 |
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HOJO |
"GHOSTLORD"20 defence isn't a lot at all on DSoma, as S0rcerer is saying. I don't see people hitting less on axers as a problem. In fact, I see people hitting (yes, yes, I know, when they do) archers for more a pro. I'm not sure I agree on that - I think an additional 20 per hit is quite a big deal - but I also think the only way we're going to get a feel for it makes things any better or worse is if it's tested for a while. EDIT: I didn't se s0rc's post there, but you're also talking in respect of a duel environment by the sounds of it; an extra 20 damage per hit when someone is potting furiously makes the world of difference.
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[quote="HOJO"][quote="GHOSTLORD"]20 defence isn't a lot at all on DSoma, as S0rcerer is saying. I don't see people hitting less on axers as a problem. In fact, I see people hitting (yes, yes, I know, when they do) archers for more a pro.
the only downside I could think off for the STR change is that mages would get slightly more damage. However, this too is only a small number.[/quote]
I'm not sure I agree on that - I think an additional 20 per hit is quite a big deal - but I also think the only way we're going to get a feel for it makes things any better or worse is if it's tested for a while.
EDIT: I didn't se s0rc's post there, but you're also talking in respect of a duel environment by the sounds of it; an extra 20 damage per hit when someone is potting furiously makes the world of difference.[/quote]
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#64 2014/04/14 11:52:23 |
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SVANHILD |
"HOJO""S0RCERERWhat is harsh about taking 20 less damage per hit? Well 20 less damage per hit makes a significant difference when lvling, that's more of my angle there. But your right, it doesnt make any difference to anyone when we cap at the same str. So my point there was that it doesn't really help the situation that we find ourselves in and i refer back to the issues i addressed earlier : One of the main problems that i see with the STR classes (Axe and spear) is the fact that the current mob STR cap is Very limiting for us. Currently the way it sits, we have to hold back on our STR gains by punching as to not cap out STR waaaay before level cap which we can easily do.
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[quote="SVANHILD"][quote="HOJO"][quote="S0RCERER]What is harsh about taking 20 less damage per hit?
As it stands, you've around 200 defence, an archer would have about 300 attack, dealing 100 dmg per hit to you, on average.
The archer would hit close to 100% of the time.
The change would mean that Archer would now deal 80 dmg per hit to you, but still hit you with the same frequency.
With a health pool of 400, that'd go from killing you in 4 hits to killing you in 5.
--
Not saying i'm particularly 'for' or 'against' the idea of the Con/Str swap, but to say that 20 def would be a bit harsh (in your favour) doesn't make much sense.
Bare in mind that an archer of equivalent level will be rocking 30~40 more Dex than you, which is established to be infinitely more effective then Defence, by level 100 that gap will be about 80 Dex difference (and their con/str will reach 200, so we'll be back to square one).[/quote]
That would be great if it only affected archers, but every other class will hit for 20 less against axe too.[/quote]
Well 20 less damage per hit makes a significant difference when lvling, that's more of my angle there. But your right, it doesnt make any difference to anyone when we cap at the same str.
So my point there was that it doesn't really help the situation that we find ourselves in and i refer back to the issues i addressed earlier :
[quote=]One of the main problems that i see with the STR classes (Axe and spear) is the fact that the current mob STR cap is Very limiting for us. Currently the way it sits, we have to hold back on our STR gains by punching as to not cap out STR waaaay before level cap which we can easily do.
We are deliberately nerfing our primary stat - this means when all classes line up at level 100, we have nigh on identical STR but our DEX and CON will be still way whack with each other. By the sheer design of the game, Spear and axe should have significantly more STR at every point of the game to counter the lack of DEX we have. We shouldn't be forced to punch and nerf our primaries to fit to a small window that others can simply cruise into, it should be a choice, not a matter of having to. I definitely think we should already have a higher STR mob implemented for fairness to str classes.
Failing the above, as suggested previously in the thread numerous times -
[quote=]Could auras not be amended for the classes lacking to try and make them more appealing instead of how stats work? i.e. more accuracy on axes 4th (+7% maybe?) in addition to its existing A+ speed, maybe allow spears 4th to be use more frequently like 2nd and up it's power? [/quote]
A bit of accuracy / guaranteed hits would do alot to alleviate the problem.
TLDR;
2) If we're going to have poop dex, let us have rocking STR. Higher Str mob so we dont cap early or are forced to punch 15 lvls. Slooooow levels
3) Failing point 2 - Accuracy needed for STR classes to be able to hit Dexy mofo's
[/quote][/quote]
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#65 2014/04/14 11:53:29 |
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GRAVIJA |
As an axer you should have the highest defence ingame, you're never going to see over 130 dex compared to an archers 180+++. No offence but you'de be lucky to hit them 2 out of 10 times at max level, you'll want to be taking as little damage as possible.
I think this change has the potential to "pull together" dsoma classes as a much greater level of balance, thereby it no longer becomes a one horse race (archer being the top horse).
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[quote="GRAVIJA"]As an axer you should have the highest defence ingame, you're never going to see over 130 dex compared to an archers 180+++. No offence but you'de be lucky to hit them 2 out of 10 times at max level, you'll want to be taking as little damage as possible.
I think this change has the potential to "pull together" dsoma classes as a much greater level of balance, thereby it no longer becomes a one horse race (archer being the top horse).[/quote]
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#66 2014/04/14 12:05:16 |
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KHASAV |
I too thought the same as you svan at first but I think we are so used to being rubbish we almost feel bad if we got buffed haha. Truth is we should miss loads but we shouldn't take big damage.
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#67 2014/04/14 12:34:11 |
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GHOSTLORD |
In terms of hunting this should decrease the inbalance of how much money each class makes. Archers would still be one of the best earners, they just have to use a few more pots when they get hit. For axers and spear users this means they don't have to go through great lengths to hunt as efficiently (read: cheap) as possible.
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[quote="GHOSTLORD"]In terms of hunting this should decrease the inbalance of how much money each class makes. Archers would still be one of the best earners, they just have to use a few more pots when they get hit. For axers and spear users this means they don't have to go through great lengths to hunt as efficiently (read: cheap) as possible. [/quote]
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#68 2014/04/14 16:02:23 |
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OPENTHEDOOR |
While we are talking about balancing,
how about including dex into the conti wotw %? Its stupid at the moment. |
#69 2014/04/14 16:42:29 |
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GRAVIJA |
Humans have upgrades to counter balance dex, if you put a devil axer at 65% dex, well lets just say you might aswell delete that character. How much more percentage advantage do you need really?
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#70 2014/04/14 17:00:06 |
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CARNAGE |
"OPENTHEDOOR"While we are talking about balancing, No offense but this isn't that type of thread, it's already bad enough grinding to have stats docked each and every war. You're in the wrong place for wotw related stuff.
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[quote="CARNAGE"][quote="OPENTHEDOOR"]While we are talking about balancing,
how about including dex into the conti wotw %?
Its stupid at the moment. [/quote]
No offense but this isn't that type of thread, it's already bad enough grinding to have stats docked each and every war. You're in the wrong place for wotw related stuff.[/quote]
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#71 2014/04/14 17:15:07 |
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OPENTHEDOOR |
This is a thread aimed at promoting balance with dsoma. So I'd assume I am in the right thread.
Rings, Armour, necklace and earings all dex/acc and I still could barely land a hit on anyone that wasn't a 4th. It's stupid. Devs just run round in int gear cause we can't hit any of them with anything other than spells. I can't imagine how disheartening it must be to be playing at 60%. But you will continue to go lower I think. Genuinely can't see a human win for at least another 2-3 weeks.
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[quote="OPENTHEDOOR"]This is a thread aimed at promoting balance with dsoma. So I'd assume I am in the right thread.
Rings, Armour, necklace and earings all dex/acc and I still could barely land a hit on anyone that wasn't a 4th. It's stupid.
Devs just run round in int gear cause we can't hit any of them with anything other than spells.
I can't imagine how disheartening it must be to be playing at 60%. But you will continue to go lower I think.
Genuinely can't see a human win for at least another 2-3 weeks. [/quote]
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#72 2014/04/14 19:35:33 |
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GHOSTLORD |
"OPENTHEDOOR"This is a thread aimed at promoting balance with dsoma. So I'd assume I am in the right thread. What this will do will jumble the balance between the class up a bit, RvR wise it won't make much of a difference I'd say. Except that mages will be properly defended against your int rather than 'just a devil to hit'.
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[quote="GHOSTLORD"][quote="OPENTHEDOOR"]This is a thread aimed at promoting balance with dsoma. So I'd assume I am in the right thread.
Rings, Armour, necklace and earings all dex/acc and I still could barely land a hit on anyone that wasn't a 4th. It's stupid.
Devs just run round in int gear cause we can't hit any of them with anything other than spells.
I can't imagine how disheartening it must be to be playing at 60%. But you will continue to go lower I think.
Genuinely can't see a human win for at least another 2-3 weeks. [/quote]
What this will do will jumble the balance between the class up a bit, RvR wise it won't make much of a difference I'd say. Except that mages will be properly defended against your int rather than 'just a devil to hit'.[/quote]
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#73 2014/04/14 19:40:58 |
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OPENTHEDOOR |
That's fine. They seem good logical changes.
But so is what I am trying to say. Last 2 wars have been poorly attending human side. I can't see tonight being much different. If I go in full accuracy gear, I can't hit anyone. If I go in full evasion gear I still get hit by everyone pretty much 100% of the time. So all I am reduced to is a char to weaken others for mages. You will find a lot of the high melee human chars have been "bored" out of attending WotW. I fear that we are just heading towards another 50% rating for devils, and then you will all be moaning because the % is to low and won't turn up.
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[quote="OPENTHEDOOR"]That's fine. They seem good logical changes.
But so is what I am trying to say.
Last 2 wars have been poorly attending human side. I can't see tonight being much different.
If I go in full accuracy gear, I can't hit anyone.
If I go in full evasion gear I still get hit by everyone pretty much 100% of the time.
So all I am reduced to is a char to weaken others for mages.
You will find a lot of the high melee human chars have been "bored" out of attending WotW.
I fear that we are just heading towards another 50% rating for devils, and then you will all be moaning because the % is to low and won't turn up.[/quote]
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#74 2014/04/15 10:31:25 |
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KHASAV |
Can I ask door what dex do you have?
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#75 2014/04/15 11:07:36 |
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