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CARNAGE |
"CYROX"The class specific ideas were not there as serious ideas. Just options available. The intention of the post was to create an idea behind balancing classes. Yeah I mean I wasn't having a go at you like I said in my post, it's just that hp related stuff is useless lol. Hp related stuff results in things like 2nd sword aura near useless and only used in low to mid level pve.
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[quote="CARNAGE"][quote="CYROX"]The class specific ideas were not there as serious ideas. Just options available. The intention of the post was to create an idea behind balancing classes.[/quote]
Yeah I mean I wasn't having a go at you like I said in my post, it's just that hp related stuff is useless lol. Hp related stuff results in things like 2nd sword aura near useless and only used in low to mid level pve.
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#106 2014/04/19 13:45:06 |
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MINISTER |
"GHOSTLORD"No, because they can move to a new mob earlier they would end up with more stats too. Granted not as much as axers or spear users. This is because there's a bonus if you're lower str than the mob and again at 30 less str than a mob. Remember that because of their nature archers can exploit this to a maximum effort. I dont really see how this makes sense, you are right in a way But if there is enough str available on the highest monster so that an axer only caps str at lvl 100 (or doesnt even reach the cap) Regardless of if they are hunting at lower str for a while longer, they are still not going to be anywhere near the amount of str as an axer simply because using bow they get much less str per level. Right now it just doesnt make sense as SVANHILD said, it may not be a problem now but once people start actually nearing the cap, archers and to a lesser extent knuk users are going to have even more of an advantage. What use is there in being Axe/Spear if you have 216 str and only 130 or 140 dex when a Archer/Knuk user is going to have the same 216 str and 200 dex...
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[quote="MINISTER"][quote="GHOSTLORD"]No, because they can move to a new mob earlier they would end up with more stats too. Granted not as much as axers or spear users. This is because there's a bonus if you're lower str than the mob and again at 30 less str than a mob. Remember that because of their nature archers can exploit this to a maximum effort. [/quote]
I dont really see how this makes sense, you are right in a way
But if there is enough str available on the highest monster so that an axer only caps str at lvl 100 (or doesnt even reach the cap)
Regardless of if they are hunting at lower str for a while longer, they are still not going to be anywhere near the amount of str as an axer simply because using bow they get much less str per level.
Right now it just doesnt make sense as SVANHILD said, it may not be a problem now but once people start actually nearing the cap, archers and to a lesser extent knuk users are going to have even more of an advantage.
What use is there in being Axe/Spear if you have 216 str and only 130 or 140 dex when a Archer/Knuk user is going to have the same 216 str and 200 dex...[/quote]
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#107 2014/04/19 14:26:38 |
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CARNAGE |
"MINISTER"What use is there in being Axe/Spear if you have 216 str and only 130 or 140 dex when a Archer/Knuk user is going to have the same 216 str and 200 dex... Sword isn't that far off being in the same boat as axe and spear aswell, just putting that out there.
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[quote="CARNAGE"][quote="MINISTER"]What use is there in being Axe/Spear if you have 216 str and only 130 or 140 dex when a Archer/Knuk user is going to have the same 216 str and 200 dex...[/quote]
Sword isn't that far off being in the same boat as axe and spear aswell, just putting that out there.
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#108 2014/04/19 14:45:12 |
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JARAGOONDOO |
The more I think about the more I am for the STR/CON change. It's not gonna make much of a difference right now, but it's a solution that will balance things in the long term (by long term, I am talking well passed level 100).
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#109 2014/04/19 15:26:04 |
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RELINA |
Think it would be easyer to have class specific armors, easyer to keep tweaking also and not nerfing any class
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#110 2014/04/19 16:44:43 |
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PROMETHEUS |
"RELINA"Think it would be easyer to have class specific armors, easyer to keep tweaking also and not nerfing any class i think this is the best bet.. changing stats is a no go atleast with items u can tinker with them alot easier make class specific ones and level req etc it's also something extra to hunt for if added to new bosses etc
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[quote="PROMETHEUS"][quote="RELINA"]Think it would be easyer to have class specific armors, easyer to keep tweaking also and not nerfing any class[/quote]
i think this is the best bet.. changing stats is a no go atleast with items u can tinker with them alot easier make class specific ones and level req etc it's also something extra to hunt for if added to new bosses etc[/quote]
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#111 2014/04/20 16:29:58 |
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SABRE |
"PROMETHEUS""RELINA"Think it would be easyer to have class specific armors, easyer to keep tweaking also and not nerfing any class ^ Decent idea's
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[quote="SABRE"][quote="PROMETHEUS"][quote="RELINA"]Think it would be easyer to have class specific armors, easyer to keep tweaking also and not nerfing any class[/quote]
i think this is the best bet.. changing stats is a no go atleast with items u can tinker with them alot easier make class specific ones and level req etc it's also something extra to hunt for if added to new bosses etc[/quote]
^ Decent idea's[/quote]
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#112 2014/04/20 19:09:22 |
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NEOXIAN |
Adding class specific armour would require so much work.
Still the best idea is using the offhand 'shield' idea Isylver and finito liked before to boost stats. Add 5 versions with level 20, 40, 60, 80, 100. Make a melee one that adds 5,10,15,20,25 damage with 2,4,6,8,10% accuracy. Archers obviously need one as well so theirs could be A good way in pvp to bring archer into balance is to make classes have the option to root archers, which procs like icy touch but on damage received. Chains of Atlas (25%) root target for 6 seconds, this could be a similar thing to axe 3rd aura. This can be in a armour slot instead of something else. Alternatively add a root 'serum' which has a proper cool down like 30 seconds and lasts for 6. Compensate axers for having a less unique aura by adding another benefit to their 3rd aura. Still would benefit axers a lot more though because they can use a ranged root, close the gap and then use their 3rd too. Other games have to limit the ability of ranged classes by introducing root, trap, charge effects to close distance. It's the only way to do it.
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[quote="NEOXIAN"]Adding class specific armour would require so much work.
Still the best idea is using the offhand 'shield' idea Isylver and finito liked before to boost stats. Add 5 versions with level 20, 40, 60, 80, 100. Make a melee one that adds 5,10,15,20,25 damage with 2,4,6,8,10% accuracy. Archers obviously need one as well so theirs could be
A good way in pvp to bring archer into balance is to make classes have the option to root archers, which procs like icy touch but on damage received. Chains of Atlas (25%) root target for 6 seconds, this could be a similar thing to axe 3rd aura. This can be in a armour slot instead of something else. Alternatively add a root 'serum' which has a proper cool down like 30 seconds and lasts for 6. Compensate axers for having a less unique aura by adding another benefit to their 3rd aura. Still would benefit axers a lot more though because they can use a ranged root, close the gap and then use their 3rd too.
Other games have to limit the ability of ranged classes by introducing root, trap, charge effects to close distance. It's the only way to do it. [/quote]
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#113 2014/04/21 06:12:00 |
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NEOXIAN |
Missed archers offhand out there because I've no idea what it could be lol
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#114 2014/04/21 06:12:35 |
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RELINA |
"NEOXIAN"Missed archers offhand out there because I've no idea what it could be lol could easily add a quiver that shairs dura with bow (helps them with dura without boosting any stats) i do like the offhand items, but also adding class specific armors add more items to the game, as this would add 24 items to devil soma + the tag systems is 120 different items for dsoma
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[quote="RELINA"][quote="NEOXIAN"]Missed archers offhand out there because I've no idea what it could be lol[/quote]
could easily add a quiver that shairs dura with bow (helps them with dura without boosting any stats)
i do like the offhand items, but also adding class specific armors add more items to the game, as this would add 24 items to devil soma + the tag systems is 120 different items for dsoma[/quote]
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#115 2014/04/21 07:27:29 |
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NEOXIAN |
Yeah you're right rehlina I like the dura idea for archers would make a massive difference to them.
With regard to class armours the problem is each mob has limited spaces on its drop file, so to implement it they would have to make multiple spawns of each mob to allow for the armours so this would be a vast amount of database alterations whereas 5 off hands for melee 5 for ranged and 5 for Mage is only 15 items to add and can do all the stats alterations of class armour sets.
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[quote="NEOXIAN"]Yeah you're right rehlina I like the dura idea for archers would make a massive difference to them.
With regard to class armours the problem is each mob has limited spaces on its drop file, so to implement it they would have to make multiple spawns of each mob to allow for the armours so this would be a vast amount of database alterations whereas 5 off hands for melee 5 for ranged and 5 for Mage is only 15 items to add and can do all the stats alterations of class armour sets.[/quote]
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#116 2014/04/21 08:05:09 |
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CYROX |
"NEOXIAN"Yeah you're right rehlina I like the dura idea for archers would make a massive difference to them. I'm not a coder, but in my eyes it could be easily introduced somehow. I.e. copy and paste HSoma GDG boss dungeon and have a boss run for dsoma that drops a new line of class specific armours. Prolly harder than im making it out to be tho ;p
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[quote="CYROX"][quote="NEOXIAN"]Yeah you're right rehlina I like the dura idea for archers would make a massive difference to them.
With regard to class armours the problem is each mob has limited spaces on its drop file, so to implement it they would have to make multiple spawns of each mob to allow for the armours so this would be a vast amount of database alterations whereas 5 off hands for melee 5 for ranged and 5 for Mage is only 15 items to add and can do all the stats alterations of class armour sets.[/quote]
I'm not a coder, but in my eyes it could be easily introduced somehow. I.e. copy and paste HSoma GDG boss dungeon and have a boss run for dsoma that drops a new line of class specific armours.
Prolly harder than im making it out to be tho ;p
[/quote]
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#117 2014/04/21 08:45:57 |
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S0RCERER |
Absolutely wholeheartedly against rooting Archers.
Despite how strong they are, you can't introduce accuracy to everyone, defence and attack to everyone and then also roots. The DEX is the problem, let's not start talking about neutering their range. I'd have hoped archers chose to play because of superior DEX and range, not because they're godlike. To that effect, bringing the accuracy of other classes up just so Archers are remotely touchable and creating a noticeable difference between classes is sufficient. Archers range should not be touched in any way.
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[quote="S0RCERER"]Absolutely wholeheartedly against rooting Archers.
Despite how strong they are, you can't introduce accuracy to everyone, defence and attack to everyone and then also roots.
The DEX is the problem, let's not start talking about neutering their range.
I'd have hoped archers chose to play because of superior DEX and range, not because they're godlike. To that effect, bringing the accuracy of other classes up just so Archers are remotely touchable and creating a noticeable difference between classes is sufficient. Archers range should not be touched in any way. [/quote]
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#118 2014/04/21 09:05:11 |
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NEOXIAN |
Unfortunately sorc I disagree with you and the easiest way to make it balanced is rooting. This is obviously very small and range is still appropriate for the majority of the time but it at least allows a gap closer.
I remember a quote 2 weeks ago of arrow and carnage Arrow: you played since release and can't pk me or hit me Carnage: you do 35 damage every 30 seconds Arrow: but you can't hit me Carnage: I can regen hp for most of your damage. This compounds the issue when a level 89+ character can't even catch a level 68 archer (at the time) and they can just kite and kite and kite. At least mages need a pre-requisite of casting a spell. This will also aleviate to some extent the pure need for hsoma axe/bow combo.
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[quote="NEOXIAN"]Unfortunately sorc I disagree with you and the easiest way to make it balanced is rooting. This is obviously very small and range is still appropriate for the majority of the time but it at least allows a gap closer.
I remember a quote 2 weeks ago of arrow and carnage
Arrow: you played since release and can't pk me or hit me
Carnage: you do 35 damage every 30 seconds
Arrow: but you can't hit me
Carnage: I can regen hp for most of your damage.
This compounds the issue when a level 89+ character can't even catch a level 68 archer (at the time) and they can just kite and kite and kite. At least mages need a pre-requisite of casting a spell.
This will also aleviate to some extent the pure need for hsoma axe/bow combo.[/quote]
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#119 2014/04/21 09:43:41 |
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CARNAGE |
That's every class vs bow in standard pvp.
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#120 2014/04/21 14:00:13 |
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