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IVYSAUR |
Sword give 100/100 dex/str gains, so at 100 str 100 dex, and double slow dex after so at str cap 216 sword will have 158 dex. Someone said earlier in thread archer will cap dex 214 before lvl 100.
Two people have the same dex, you have 50% accuracy on them. So even ignoring dodge once Archer has gone above 208 dex (Which they will) They will have the maximum evasion possible against a sword user (100% is not possible without evasion pieces, but they will be very close, I would assume 95%+ evasion) And the situation is worse for Spear and Axe And in the same way archers will have 95+% accuracy on everyone lol Then to make matters even worse if you do manage to land a low probability hit, they have the most con / defense ingame to top it off. I think the str/con swap change is good start, but dex also needs to be looked into.
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[quote="IVYSAUR"]Sword give 100/100 dex/str gains, so at 100 str 100 dex, and double slow dex after so at str cap 216 sword will have 158 dex. Someone said earlier in thread archer will cap dex 214 before lvl 100.
Two people have the same dex, you have 50% accuracy on them. So even ignoring dodge once Archer has gone above 208 dex (Which they will) They will have the maximum evasion possible against a sword user (100% is not possible without evasion pieces, but they will be very close, I would assume 95%+ evasion) And the situation is worse for Spear and Axe
And in the same way archers will have 95+% accuracy on everyone lol
Then to make matters even worse if you do manage to land a low probability hit, they have the most con / defense ingame to top it off. I think the str/con swap change is good start, but dex also needs to be looked into.
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#121 2014/04/21 14:14:30 |
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JARAGOONDOO |
As others have said earlier, a while ago off-hand items were suggested (different for each class) which seems like a great way to fix the balance between the classes right now.
But what should they give? Quiver (dura) for archers sounds good to me, as it gives no combat bonus. Axers, Spears and Sword would probably want +Accuracy (a decent amount, too). Knuckle should probably get +damage. This should be together with the STR/CON change, otherwise Archers would still have the best stats in the long run.
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[quote="JARAGOONDOO"]As others have said earlier, a while ago off-hand items were suggested (different for each class) which seems like a great way to fix the balance between the classes right now.
But what should they give?
Quiver (dura) for archers sounds good to me, as it gives no combat bonus.
Axers, Spears and Sword would probably want +Accuracy (a decent amount, too).
Knuckle should probably get +damage.
This should be together with the STR/CON change, otherwise Archers would still have the best stats in the long run.[/quote]
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#122 2014/04/21 14:26:39 |
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NEOXIAN |
Stats are one thing yes, spear axe and sword will have 1% accuracy versus any capped archer currently.
But catching them is another thing and some SORT of root system in the game will be amazing. This will root mages too, but then give them a 4th staff aura that mimics a gbird affect that can get them ranged still and then all classes serve the function they were supposed to. I don't think the intention was ever to have archer stone tanks. I don't think the intention was ever to have archers killing most people before they can even REACH them. Something has to be implemented to close that range gap even if only momentarily as obviously archers are supposed to be ranged after all, just not to the extent they are currently.
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[quote="NEOXIAN"]Stats are one thing yes, spear axe and sword will have 1% accuracy versus any capped archer currently.
But catching them is another thing and some SORT of root system in the game will be amazing. This will root mages too, but then give them a 4th staff aura that mimics a gbird affect that can get them ranged still and then all classes serve the function they were supposed to.
I don't think the intention was ever to have archer stone tanks. I don't think the intention was ever to have archers killing most people before they can even REACH them. Something has to be implemented to close that range gap even if only momentarily as obviously archers are supposed to be ranged after all, just not to the extent they are currently.
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#123 2014/04/21 15:24:36 |
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SVANHILD |
Not liking this rooting idea one bit. Everyone gets to have ranged 3rd axe? No ty
Class specific armors seem like a good idea. |
#124 2014/04/21 17:51:14 |
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RELINA |
Don't like the rooting idea also, don't see that as a problem. Gvw shows this as the stone holder tends to be a archer
Think shield items/class specific armors and possibly removing auto attack from pvp would sort a lot out Mobs can have a lot more than 15 drops and have multiple spawns to cope with these drops, so basically one spot of mobs could in fact have 5 spawns with different drops
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[quote="RELINA"]Don't like the rooting idea also, don't see that as a problem. Gvw shows this as the stone holder tends to be a archer
Think shield items/class specific armors and possibly removing auto attack from pvp would sort a lot out
Mobs can have a lot more than 15 drops and have multiple spawns to cope with these drops, so basically one spot of mobs could in fact have 5 spawns with different drops[/quote]
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#125 2014/04/21 17:58:47 |
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NEOXIAN |
svanhild in your quick ignorance you've failed to see the benefit it has to axers more than any other class.
you are range from archer pinging at you, you can use a serum that will last for x amount of seconds and once you finally get ranged can drop a paralyze/concuss straight on them. means axers will actually be able to hit a class and make them stronger than ever in world pvp. i've probably contributed since server release for top 5 amount of pk's dsoma side particularly during the level 50-74 period as a spear which is r2 and archers are literally impossible to catch or do anything to. Archer is a class choice - ranged and dexy. it shouldnt be that no other class can ever land a hit on them or catch them in world pvp it's not right and needs balancing in itself.
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[quote="NEOXIAN"]svanhild in your quick ignorance you've failed to see the benefit it has to axers more than any other class.
you are range from archer pinging at you, you can use a serum that will last for x amount of seconds and once you finally get ranged can drop a paralyze/concuss straight on them. means axers will actually be able to hit a class and make them stronger than ever in world pvp.
i've probably contributed since server release for top 5 amount of pk's dsoma side particularly during the level 50-74 period as a spear which is r2 and archers are literally impossible to catch or do anything to.
Archer is a class choice - ranged and dexy. it shouldnt be that no other class can ever land a hit on them or catch them in world pvp it's not right and needs balancing in itself. [/quote]
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#126 2014/04/22 06:36:05 |
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YOSHIMITSU |
"RELINA" This needs removing for all pvp not just dsoma |
#127 2014/04/22 08:51:41 |
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SVANHILD |
"NEOXIAN"svanhild in your quick ignorance you've failed to see the benefit it has to axers more than any other class. Ignorance? No, I just disagree. If this magic potion you are referring to existed then archers could just stone everyone else. Just not a fan. I think this could be sorted other ways
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[quote="SVANHILD"][quote="NEOXIAN"]svanhild in your quick ignorance you've failed to see the benefit it has to axers more than any other class.
you are range from archer pinging at you, you can use a serum that will last for x amount of seconds and once you finally get ranged can drop a paralyze/concuss straight on them. means axers will actually be able to hit a class and make them stronger than ever in world pvp.
i've probably contributed since server release for top 5 amount of pk's dsoma side particularly during the level 50-74 period as a spear which is r2 and archers are literally impossible to catch or do anything to.
Archer is a class choice - ranged and dexy. it shouldnt be that no other class can ever land a hit on them or catch them in world pvp it's not right and needs balancing in itself. [/quote]
Ignorance? No, I just disagree. If this magic potion you are referring to existed then archers could just stone everyone else. Just not a fan.
I think this could be sorted other ways[/quote]
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#128 2014/04/22 17:20:06 |
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HOJO |
"SVANHILD"I think this could be sorted other ways Like some sort of a movement impairing move? For example r3 aura-type weapon skills: "hammer throw" for axe, "harpoon" for spear, "superman punch" (i.e. leaping punch) for knuckle, not sure for sword but you get the idea, that stops the target from running and halts stamina regen for x seconds. Archers could have "backflip" that moves them back 3 spaces too which can't be used whilst impaired, but mages could have some sort of teleport with a similar effect which can be used whilst impaired, possibly with a movement impairing effect of their own (if it wouldn't make it op?) because they have to cast so need a bit of extra time. Doesn't take the piss but at least gives melee a chance to get a hit or 2 off on a moving target, and gives mages a bit more of a window against melee 1v1. I know this would change things for hsoma too so arguably a bit off topic, but just a thought. ...on that note, you could be limited to learning one ability to stop it getting out of hand on hsoma.
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[quote="HOJO"][quote="SVANHILD"]I think this could be sorted other ways[/quote]
Like some sort of a movement impairing move?
For example r3 aura-type weapon skills: "hammer throw" for axe, "harpoon" for spear, "superman punch" (i.e. leaping punch) for knuckle, not sure for sword but you get the idea, that stops the target from running and halts stamina regen for x seconds. Archers could have "backflip" that moves them back 3 spaces too which can't be used whilst impaired, but mages could have some sort of teleport with a similar effect which can be used whilst impaired, possibly with a movement impairing effect of their own (if it wouldn't make it op?) because they have to cast so need a bit of extra time.
Doesn't take the piss but at least gives melee a chance to get a hit or 2 off on a moving target, and gives mages a bit more of a window against melee 1v1.
I know this would change things for hsoma too so arguably a bit off topic, but just a thought.
...on that note, you could be limited to learning one ability to stop it getting out of hand on hsoma.[/quote]
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#129 2014/04/22 17:43:02 |
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NEOXIAN |
I'm referring to world pvp svan, if an archer so choses to use a serum against one person then great but at least the spear/sword/knux may have a friend there too who can make the most of the range gap close. I wasn't fixed on times but 4 second root with 30 second cool down doesn't seem 'gamebreaking'
The serum won't help much 1v1 granted but if it's a mass pvp or something it adds another dynamic. It's just so annoying how you can't stop an archer being ranged. I do like hojos idea, I'm just saying it'll take a few hours to add a serum that has a similar effect to 3rd axe aura but would take weeks to code your ideas. Long term I do love it though. Another fix to archers is make them minimum range 3 so they have to be ranged. The lore of using a now range 1 is not appropriate after all.
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[quote="NEOXIAN"]I'm referring to world pvp svan, if an archer so choses to use a serum against one person then great but at least the spear/sword/knux may have a friend there too who can make the most of the range gap close. I wasn't fixed on times but 4 second root with 30 second cool down doesn't seem 'gamebreaking'
The serum won't help much 1v1 granted but if it's a mass pvp or something it adds another dynamic. It's just so annoying how you can't stop an archer being ranged.
I do like hojos idea, I'm just saying it'll take a few hours to add a serum that has a similar effect to 3rd axe aura but would take weeks to code your ideas. Long term I do love it though.
Another fix to archers is make them minimum range 3 so they have to be ranged. The lore of using a now range 1 is not appropriate after all. [/quote]
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#130 2014/04/22 19:05:47 |
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SVANHILD |
"NEOXIAN"I'm referring to world pvp svan, if an archer so choses to use a serum against one person then great but at least the spear/sword/knux may have a friend there too who can make the most of the range gap close. I wasn't fixed on times but 4 second root with 30 second cool down doesn't seem 'gamebreaking' What if there are a group of ranged chars, will just pin you dead.
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[quote="SVANHILD"][quote="NEOXIAN"]I'm referring to world pvp svan, if an archer so choses to use a serum against one person then great but at least the spear/sword/knux may have a friend there too who can make the most of the range gap close. I wasn't fixed on times but 4 second root with 30 second cool down doesn't seem 'gamebreaking'
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What if there are a group of ranged chars, will just pin you dead.[/quote]
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#131 2014/04/22 19:15:34 |
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S0RCERER |
"NEOXIAN"Another fix to archers is make them minimum range 3 so they have to be ranged. The lore of using a now range 1 is not appropriate after all. How would they hunt? |
#132 2014/04/22 19:15:49 |
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CARNAGE |
"NEOXIAN"Another fix to archers is make them minimum range 3 so they have to be ranged. The lore of using a now range 1 is not appropriate after all. Here's how I often look at it, any archer that's worth anything will actually usually fight head on, the actual problem or major annoyance are the scrub archers that stand in the back hitting during group fights and just run as soon as you get near them.
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[quote="CARNAGE"][quote="NEOXIAN"]Another fix to archers is make them minimum range 3 so they have to be ranged. The lore of using a now range 1 is not appropriate after all. [/quote]
Here's how I often look at it, any archer that's worth anything will actually usually fight head on, the actual problem or major annoyance are the scrub archers that stand in the back hitting during group fights and just run as soon as you get near them.[/quote]
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#133 2014/04/22 19:48:54 |
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NEOXIAN |
"S0RCERER"How would they hunt? ah, the perfect solution s0rc to their stats. don't let archers hunt wbm. they wont get the str gains. let them hunt a new mob with higher dex and lower strength then their stats will not always innately be 1.3x. obviously all mobs will need range extended that wouldn't impact levelling much... would make it more fun infact. still, this was just another idea. archers need balancing - fact. roots, no auto attack in pvp, stat changes, to name a few.
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[quote="NEOXIAN"][quote="S0RCERER"]How would they hunt?[/quote]
ah, the perfect solution s0rc to their stats. don't let archers hunt wbm. they wont get the str gains. let them hunt a new mob with higher dex and lower strength then their stats will not always innately be 1.3x.
obviously all mobs will need range extended that wouldn't impact levelling much... would make it more fun infact.
still, this was just another idea.
archers need balancing - fact. roots, no auto attack in pvp, stat changes, to name a few.[/quote]
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#134 2014/04/23 06:40:11 |
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IVYSAUR |
"SVANHILD""MINISTER"Wouldnt it make sense if the highest devil mob had enough str so that an axer would cap str at about lvl 100 "NEOXIAN"Stats are one thing yes, spear axe and sword will have 1% accuracy versus any capped archer currently. In reference to these three posts, adding a higher mob (Enough str so axers cap str at lvl 100) would also mean that the axe/spear/sword classes would be able to get more dex and get closer to the dex cap. Although im not sure if even that would mean enough of a gain to make a difference. But as it stands the closer you get to level 100, Axe/spear/sword have 1% accuracy against archers, and they have 99% accuracy on the previous three classes, or very close to it. And there lies a fundamentally huge problem
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[quote="IVYSAUR"][quote="SVANHILD"][quote="MINISTER"]Wouldnt it make sense if the highest devil mob had enough str so that an axer would cap str at about lvl 100
Be funny to see an axer have 216 str with 140 str, or a sword with 216 str and 160 dex only to see an archer have 216 str and dex cap (If thats even possible) because there amount of levels available allows them to cap str (or get close)
Basically means at cap its highly favorable to be an archer (Then knuk) if they can cap str or even get remotely close to it.[/quote]
That is the absolute crux of the matter imo. Exactly as you've said above, the current situation lends itself to every class having near identical str whilst dex is wildly different. There should most definitely be a mob above wbm for str classes to reach their true potential.[/quote]
[quote="NEOXIAN"]Stats are one thing yes, spear axe and sword will have 1% accuracy versus any capped archer currently. [/quote]
In reference to these three posts, adding a higher mob (Enough str so axers cap str at lvl 100) would also mean that the axe/spear/sword classes would be able to get more dex and get closer to the dex cap. Although im not sure if even that would mean enough of a gain to make a difference.
But as it stands the closer you get to level 100, Axe/spear/sword have 1% accuracy against archers, and they have 99% accuracy on the previous three classes, or very close to it. And there lies a fundamentally huge problem[/quote]
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#135 2014/04/23 18:20:17 |
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