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FOXOSAURUS |
Shadowbowknuk - That would work well - allow a player to really descend into negative moral points in combination really limiting NPCs, making moral a lot lot slower to gain but just as easy to loose? A long rope climb back out. It still wouldn't stop most people from using their other characters or simply letting them go that way permanently as "throwaway" accounts. But I think it would help create a "pit of despair" that people have to think about getting into too easily - making PK be less appealing.
Carnage - There is little reward than creating a reaction, outside of obvious spite/breaking a grind/repetition -theres some negative mentalities out there that believe if you PK someone enough it "should want them to play harder to fight back" and the whole doing it to "force someone to pick a side and not be neutral". Both costly to the UC and adding toxicity and salt. Trouble is and it goes back to what Slayer was saying, the weapon speed for most PKs were normal, magic always hit hard even if someone was on similar INT (probably helped look that way as well because most people had a lot less CON and only some had been efficient with levelling - smaller HP bars). There was no such thing or even close really to people with +8 gear let alone just +5s so people could reasonably fight back. That isnt possible or even likely for most players. Regardless of anyone earning those items. Put that same situation of imba/OP geared people/gear in competitions and leagues and that becomes much more appealing for everyone, even me especially in group play. Then you get the real PVP people want and strategys maybe? Would that replace what people are after? Or would you still want to bring back death drops? (and lets be honest, those death drops should be a lot more likely if a PKER dies vs a none-grey as a risk vs reward). Give people a chance to really get even on a personal level? Does the game need that? Would that some of the above give people the bang they need to drop someone 'on occasion' and force people to just move on?
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[quote="FOXOSAURUS"]Shadowbowknuk - That would work well - allow a player to really descend into negative moral points in combination really limiting NPCs, making moral a lot lot slower to gain but just as easy to loose? A long rope climb back out. It still wouldn't stop most people from using their other characters or simply letting them go that way permanently as "throwaway" accounts. But I think it would help create a "pit of despair" that people have to think about getting into too easily - making PK be less appealing.
Carnage - There is little reward than creating a reaction, outside of obvious spite/breaking a grind/repetition -theres some negative mentalities out there that believe if you PK someone enough it "should want them to play harder to fight back" and the whole doing it to "force someone to pick a side and not be neutral". Both costly to the UC and adding toxicity and salt.
Trouble is and it goes back to what Slayer was saying, the weapon speed for most PKs were normal, magic always hit hard even if someone was on similar INT (probably helped look that way as well because most people had a lot less CON and only some had been efficient with levelling - smaller HP bars). There was no such thing or even close really to people with +8 gear let alone just +5s so people could reasonably fight back. That isnt possible or even likely for most players. Regardless of anyone earning those items.
Put that same situation of imba/OP geared people/gear in competitions and leagues and that becomes much more appealing for everyone, even me especially in group play. Then you get the real PVP people want and strategys maybe? Would that replace what people are after?
Or would you still want to bring back death drops? (and lets be honest, those death drops should be a lot more likely if a PKER dies vs a none-grey as a risk vs reward). Give people a chance to really get even on a personal level? Does the game need that?
Would that some of the above give people the bang they need to drop someone 'on occasion' and force people to just move on?
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#106 2019/10/27 21:48:56 |
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CARNAGE |
"FOXOSAURUS"Carnage - There is little reward than creating a reaction, outside of obvious spite/breaking a grind/repetition -theres some negative mentalities out there that believe if you PK someone enough it "should want them to play harder to fight back" and the whole doing it to "force someone to pick a side and not be neutral". Both costly to the UC and adding toxicity and salt. Understandable, but after a while the disadvantages just get to the point it's no longer actually worth it and just becomes a massive waste of time so why bother exactly. 1 hour immunity, no death drops because who is actually dumb enough to be actively hunting with max pen.
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[quote="CARNAGE"][quote="FOXOSAURUS"]Carnage - There is little reward than creating a reaction, outside of obvious spite/breaking a grind/repetition -theres some negative mentalities out there that believe if you PK someone enough it "should want them to play harder to fight back" and the whole doing it to "force someone to pick a side and not be neutral". Both costly to the UC and adding toxicity and salt.[/quote]
Understandable, but after a while the disadvantages just get to the point it's no longer actually worth it and just becomes a massive waste of time so why bother exactly. 1 hour immunity, no death drops because who is actually dumb enough to be actively hunting with max pen.[/quote]
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#107 2019/10/27 22:07:13 |
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FOXOSAURUS |
"CARNAGE""FOXOSAURUS"Carnage - There is little reward than creating a reaction, outside of obvious spite/breaking a grind/repetition -theres some negative mentalities out there that believe if you PK someone enough it "should want them to play harder to fight back" and the whole doing it to "force someone to pick a side and not be neutral". Both costly to the UC and adding toxicity and salt. So if you look at the paragraph below yours where I reference Slayer. That's where I'm saying what is it that people actually want then? Again, I'd be up for suggesting removing immunity and even bringing back death drops but that has to all still have a risk and reward system tied to it. Does an official PVP league/party/guild system need to be in place that ranks people to take the mainstay of PVP to a 'healither' place thats more sporting, leaving actual PKing to be something thats not really used the way it is now?
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[quote="FOXOSAURUS"][quote="CARNAGE"][quote="FOXOSAURUS"]Carnage - There is little reward than creating a reaction, outside of obvious spite/breaking a grind/repetition -theres some negative mentalities out there that believe if you PK someone enough it "should want them to play harder to fight back" and the whole doing it to "force someone to pick a side and not be neutral". Both costly to the UC and adding toxicity and salt.[/quote]
Understandable, but after a while the disadvantages just get to the point it's no longer actually worth it and just becomes a massive waste of time so why bother exactly. 1 hour immunity, no death drops because who is actually dumb enough to be actively hunting with max pen.[/quote]
So if you look at the paragraph below yours where I reference Slayer. That's where I'm saying what is it that people actually want then? Again, I'd be up for suggesting removing immunity and even bringing back death drops but that has to all still have a risk and reward system tied to it. Does an official PVP league/party/guild system need to be in place that ranks people to take the mainstay of PVP to a 'healither' place thats more sporting, leaving actual PKing to be something thats not really used the way it is now?
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#108 2019/10/27 22:58:59 |
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SLAYER |
Death drops I don't know if it's good to bring those back, DCing is less of an issue these days but can still happen...dropping a +8 items can be enough to make people quit with how long it takes to make something like that.
The best suggestions are no cap on loss of moral, and the deeper a player goes the more they risk (make them able to drop items upon death and.unable to use resis if they go deep enough moral wise), as someone suggested, make unholys super super rare, moral points super slow to gain etc. This would make people save their kills for people they really want to target and have more meaning behind each kill imo, it will keep people active regaining the moral from mobs as well... In my mind that is the best solution, then removing immunity etc would be an easy thing to do if people want it/if it's needed.
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[quote="SLAYER"]Death drops I don't know if it's good to bring those back, DCing is less of an issue these days but can still happen...dropping a +8 items can be enough to make people quit with how long it takes to make something like that.
The best suggestions are no cap on loss of moral, and the deeper a player goes the more they risk (make them able to drop items upon death and.unable to use resis if they go deep enough moral wise), as someone suggested, make unholys super super rare, moral points super slow to gain etc.
This would make people save their kills for people they really want to target and have more meaning behind each kill imo, it will keep people active regaining the moral from mobs as well...
In my mind that is the best solution, then removing immunity etc would be an easy thing to do if people want it/if it's needed.[/quote]
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#109 2019/10/28 01:08:35 |
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CARNAGE |
Wasn't suggesting bring death drops back or anything like that, was more the fact a lot seem to be in favour of making life as a pker harder etc which isn't even a problem providing it's worth putting a char into what could be indefinite devil moral. There's no reason to risk that because there's nothing to be gained except simple bragging rights which imo is not enough.
Not saying reward the pker either but there's no point to it if it's nothing but 100% downside, just saying.
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[quote="CARNAGE"]Wasn't suggesting bring death drops back or anything like that, was more the fact a lot seem to be in favour of making life as a pker harder etc which isn't even a problem providing it's worth putting a char into what could be indefinite devil moral. There's no reason to risk that because there's nothing to be gained except simple bragging rights which imo is not enough.
Not saying reward the pker either but there's no point to it if it's nothing but 100% downside, just saying.[/quote]
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#110 2019/10/28 01:17:07 |
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SLAYER |
"CARNAGE"Wasn't suggesting bring death drops back or anything like that, was more the fact a lot seem to be in favour of making life as a pker harder etc which isn't even a problem providing it's worth putting a char into what could be indefinite devil moral. There's no reason to risk that because there's nothing to be gained except simple bragging rights which imo is not enough. The aim is to restrict constant PKing with little to no consequences for the pker, which is unlike how the game was originally designed. That's what we are trying to get at with these propositions. The toxicity I have witnessed constantly repeat itself stems from the lack of penalty for the pkerm as we have already covered in this thread. Admittedly there isn't the same chance of a death drop, unless the person is a mong (same as esoma really) but Resis have always been a thing on hsoma anyway so the reward for the pker would be little different to esoma, except they would still gain bragging rights on the feed and PK ratio, which they didn't get on esoma.
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[quote="SLAYER"][quote="CARNAGE"]Wasn't suggesting bring death drops back or anything like that, was more the fact a lot seem to be in favour of making life as a pker harder etc which isn't even a problem providing it's worth putting a char into what could be indefinite devil moral. There's no reason to risk that because there's nothing to be gained except simple bragging rights which imo is not enough.
Not saying reward the pker either but there's no point to it if it's nothing but 100% downside, just saying.[/quote]
The aim is to restrict constant PKing with little to no consequences for the pker, which is unlike how the game was originally designed. That's what we are trying to get at with these propositions. The toxicity I have witnessed constantly repeat itself stems from the lack of penalty for the pkerm as we have already covered in this thread.
Admittedly there isn't the same chance of a death drop, unless the person is a mong (same as esoma really) but Resis have always been a thing on hsoma anyway so the reward for the pker would be little different to esoma, except they would still gain bragging rights on the feed and PK ratio, which they didn't get on esoma.[/quote]
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#111 2019/10/28 02:47:47 |
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KAZOKU |
Could possible
Uncap moral Any sort of pvp and all parties involved are grey Change pk ratio so it's only effected if your grey Could then add a leaderboard for pvp based on the pk ratio(tho could possibly be abused) You then wouldn't be penalised moral wise in a pvp battle Limit the amount of pots in the pk shop to a set amount per soma day Could then look at removing the immunity, as your separating pvp battles for just pking And then possible add item drops to negative moral players or after a set amount of negative moral points
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[quote="KAZOKU"]Could possible
Uncap moral
Any sort of pvp and all parties involved are grey
Change pk ratio so it's only effected if your grey
Could then add a leaderboard for pvp based on the pk ratio(tho could possibly be abused)
You then wouldn't be penalised moral wise in a pvp battle
Limit the amount of pots in the pk shop to a set amount per soma day
Could then look at removing the immunity, as your separating pvp battles for just pking
And then possible add item drops to negative moral players or after a set amount of negative moral points [/quote]
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#112 2019/10/28 07:29:00 |
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ARGANOX |
Here's my idea which I hope would be quite easy to implement..... (talking hsoma here please reverse for dsoma)
Raise moral points to +/-100 Just have the moral penalty for killing an Angel moral player higher. For example if you're neutral and kill and angel you go straight to wicked. 2nd kill you're devil. However a neutral killing a neutral would take you to bad moral. Make the moral penalty for killing a devil a lot lower if you're angel. Maybe even stay angel for the first kill Remove +100hp pots from pk villages or make them a higher weight. Remove ressi scrolls from pk villages or make them something like 250k each and weight 30 but I think removing would be best Keep the GS and WH npcs at graveyard but move them far enough apart so there is a small run between them to make it just a bit more effort for PKrs transferring items. You could even keep the immunity system but just have it for 15/30 mins so even the PKrs can at least get a bit of farming in. However I feel it could also be removed as the life as a devil would be a lot more tricky/time consuming
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[quote="ARGANOX"]Here's my idea which I hope would be quite easy to implement..... (talking hsoma here please reverse for dsoma)
Raise moral points to +/-100
Just have the moral penalty for killing an Angel moral player higher. For example if you're neutral and kill and angel you go straight to wicked. 2nd kill you're devil. However a neutral killing a neutral would take you to bad moral.
Make the moral penalty for killing a devil a lot lower if you're angel. Maybe even stay angel for the first kill
Remove +100hp pots from pk villages or make them a higher weight. Remove ressi scrolls from pk villages or make them something like 250k each and weight 30 but I think removing would be best
Keep the GS and WH npcs at graveyard but move them far enough apart so there is a small run between them to make it just a bit more effort for PKrs transferring items.
You could even keep the immunity system but just have it for 15/30 mins so even the PKrs can at least get a bit of farming in. However I feel it could also be removed as the life as a devil would be a lot more tricky/time consuming [/quote]
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#113 2019/10/28 08:17:46 |
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WHOOSH |
Lol wtf am I reading? Make PVP have gigantic penalties. When WOTW is dead that’s all people have and now you can go -1000000 morale, that might be the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard you say Slayer and I’ve heard you say some seriously dumb shit. You must be trolling?
Arganox some of the stuff you’re suggesting is already in the game (the killing higher morale char’s having higher morale loss penalties and lower morale lesser penalties) Also I’m pretty sure wicked/dev/dsoma equivalents of morale don’t even have immunity at all. Just remove PK if you’re gonna do some of these suggestions, honestly ridiculous.
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[quote="WHOOSH"]Lol wtf am I reading? Make PVP have gigantic penalties. When WOTW is dead that’s all people have and now you can go -1000000 morale, that might be the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard you say Slayer and I’ve heard you say some seriously dumb shit. You must be trolling?
Arganox some of the stuff you’re suggesting is already in the game (the killing higher morale char’s having higher morale loss penalties and lower morale lesser penalties)
Also I’m pretty sure wicked/dev/dsoma equivalents of morale don’t even have immunity at all.
Just remove PK if you’re gonna do some of these suggestions, honestly ridiculous.[/quote]
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#114 2019/10/28 09:09:08 |
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SUBXERO |
pk really isnt an issue now
Nothing like it used to be Its fine work on other things lol |
#115 2019/10/28 09:21:44 |
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FOXOSAURUS |
"WHOOSH"Lol wtf am I reading? Make PVP have gigantic penalties. When WOTW is dead that’s all people have and now you can go -1000000 morale, that might be the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard you say Slayer and I’ve heard you say some seriously dumb shit. You must be trolling? I think you need to weigh up the fact that nothing would be changed without "giving things to do". Valuing PVP is going to be important just as much as it is to let people have nothing to do with it or as close too if they want it that way. Talked about PVP Leagues earlier, organised and scheduled competition that isnt just a GVW FFA. PK has and does at times create toxicity and has made people leave.
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[quote="FOXOSAURUS"][quote="WHOOSH"]Lol wtf am I reading? Make PVP have gigantic penalties. When WOTW is dead that’s all people have and now you can go -1000000 morale, that might be the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard you say Slayer and I’ve heard you say some seriously dumb shit. You must be trolling?
Arganox some of the stuff you’re suggesting is already in the game (the killing higher morale char’s having higher morale loss penalties and lower morale lesser penalties)
Also I’m pretty sure wicked/dev/dsoma equivalents of morale don’t even have immunity at all.
Just remove PK if you’re gonna do some of these suggestions, honestly ridiculous.[/quote]
I think you need to weigh up the fact that nothing would be changed without "giving things to do". Valuing PVP is going to be important just as much as it is to let people have nothing to do with it or as close too if they want it that way. Talked about PVP Leagues earlier, organised and scheduled competition that isnt just a GVW FFA. PK has and does at times create toxicity and has made people leave.[/quote]
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#116 2019/10/28 10:04:39 |
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OXANA |
A small pk change has already been made to 1 hour immunity so let's see that how that goes.
Maybe removing the kills/deaths figures is the only other thing needed for now. As has been said, Anvil time please. |
#117 2019/10/28 10:22:50 |
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CARNAGE |
"FOXOSAURUS"PK has and does at times create toxicity and has made people leave. I genuinely feel sorry for those individuals if they ever attempt to move on from this game into something that's actually mainstream. A small community can be nice at times but sometimes it just creates people that are straight up spoiled. Don't get what I want oh well I'm off.
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[quote="CARNAGE"][quote="FOXOSAURUS"]PK has and does at times create toxicity and has made people leave.[/quote]
I genuinely feel sorry for those individuals if they ever attempt to move on from this game into something that's actually mainstream.
A small community can be nice at times but sometimes it just creates people that are straight up spoiled. Don't get what I want oh well I'm off. [/quote]
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#118 2019/10/28 10:43:46 |
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SLAYER |
"WHOOSH"Lol wtf am I reading? Make PVP have gigantic penalties. When WOTW is dead that’s all people have and now you can go -1000000 morale, that might be the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard you say Slayer and I’ve heard you say some seriously dumb shit. You must be trolling? Who's this? MUSA that you? Seems like you didn't read the thread properly at all, It wasn't really my idea I just agreed it was probably the best set of ideas out of those suggested...I've seen the toxicity (stemming from constant pk attempts imo) make people on either side quit en mass, they just don't usually admit it publicly... Those who have essentially suggested replicating the situation on original esoma but with different methods due to the differences between this server and esoma (numbers/speed of leveling/moral gain/extra threat when in deep 'negative' moral etc etc) get the point here . I loved the hardcore nature of esoma, but we have it too easy and it has evolved here in many ways (for PKers especially) and the socioeconomic situation is different so it needs a different approach. If you don't see it as a problem then say that, but explain why...the way you responded is super constructive.... Have you never been in a guild that is constantly targeted by another, yet refuse to take deaths for 30 mins of hunting/farming? most people aren't the type to do this, so they simply log out and play a different game/go back to real life. @sub/matty whoever it is...i'm sure PKing is fine atm for you, as you have no opposition in-game from what I understand? Remember when you wanted to bring in immunity or any form of protection from what we are talking about here.... I think you would have been all for some of these suggestions back then... A more eloquent solution (not saying what I've suggested is the answer btw) can and would work better than the immunity system. It would just require more work. Of course, you want other things changed at the moment as you are having no issues with being targeted... I'm sure if all DL and their allies were still playing and able to be on you 24x7, and if you only had a few guild members to back you up, you would just quit. I know you took loads of kills when you were trying to cap, but you were even suggesting to remove PK ratio for this reason at one point, and deaths from showing on the feed I believe? Correct me If I'm wrong.
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[quote="SLAYER"][quote="WHOOSH"]Lol wtf am I reading? Make PVP have gigantic penalties. When WOTW is dead that’s all people have and now you can go -1000000 morale, that might be the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard you say Slayer and I’ve heard you say some seriously dumb shit. You must be trolling?
Arganox some of the stuff you’re suggesting is already in the game (the killing higher morale char’s having higher morale loss penalties and lower morale lesser penalties)
Also I’m pretty sure wicked/dev/dsoma equivalents of morale don’t even have immunity at all.
Just remove PK if you’re gonna do some of these suggestions, honestly ridiculous.[/quote]
Who's this? MUSA that you? Seems like you didn't read the thread properly at all, It wasn't really my idea I just agreed it was probably the best set of ideas out of those suggested...I've seen the toxicity (stemming from constant pk attempts imo) make people on either side quit en mass, they just don't usually admit it publicly...
Those who have essentially suggested replicating the situation on original esoma but with different methods due to the differences between this server and esoma (numbers/speed of leveling/moral gain/extra threat when in deep 'negative' moral etc etc) get the point here . I loved the hardcore nature of esoma, but we have it too easy and it has evolved here in many ways (for PKers especially) and the socioeconomic situation is different so it needs a different approach.
If you don't see it as a problem then say that, but explain why...the way you responded is super constructive.... Have you never been in a guild that is constantly targeted by another, yet refuse to take deaths for 30 mins of hunting/farming? most people aren't the type to do this, so they simply log out and play a different game/go back to real life.
@sub/matty whoever it is...i'm sure PKing is fine atm for you, as you have no opposition in-game from what I understand?
Remember when you wanted to bring in immunity or any form of protection from what we are talking about here.... I think you would have been all for some of these suggestions back then... A more eloquent solution (not saying what I've suggested is the answer btw) can and would work better than the immunity system. It would just require more work.
Of course, you want other things changed at the moment as you are having no issues with being targeted... I'm sure if all DL and their allies were still playing and able to be on you 24x7, and if you only had a few guild members to back you up, you would just quit. I know you took loads of kills when you were trying to cap, but you were even suggesting to remove PK ratio for this reason at one point, and deaths from showing on the feed I believe? Correct me If I'm wrong.[/quote]
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#119 2019/10/30 00:36:45 |
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SLAYER |
"CARNAGE""FOXOSAURUS"PK has and does at times create toxicity and has made people leave. Tbh mate you were always in big guilds with plenty of backup/alliance and were fairly neutral. You were never on the receiving end of it really. Things were also a bit different back when you played...there is essentially zero risk/loss for a person pking now when moral is grounded out. Can even TP around from npc to npc re stocking with basically no risk....too easy. It used to be risky/harder work being bottom moral on hsoma or dsoma. I think it's more like "well this is annoying I'll go play something else or go back to more rl interests"...In the context of what we are talking about anyway.
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[quote="SLAYER"][quote="CARNAGE"][quote="FOXOSAURUS"]PK has and does at times create toxicity and has made people leave.[/quote]
I genuinely feel sorry for those individuals if they ever attempt to move on from this game into something that's actually mainstream.
A small community can be nice at times but sometimes it just creates people that are straight up spoiled. Don't get what I want oh well I'm off. [/quote]
Tbh mate you were always in big guilds with plenty of backup/alliance and were fairly neutral. You were never on the receiving end of it really. Things were also a bit different back when you played...there is essentially zero risk/loss for a person pking now when moral is grounded out. Can even TP around from npc to npc re stocking with basically no risk....too easy. It used to be risky/harder work being bottom moral on hsoma or dsoma.
I think it's more like "well this is annoying I'll go play something else or go back to more rl interests"...In the context of what we are talking about anyway.[/quote]
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#120 2019/10/30 00:54:05 |
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