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[quote="ROCH"]The irony of this situation is that bringing in the elders with high magic attack actually serves to lessen the discrepancy between the 100 int and 50 int players, not widen it. If a normal mag hits a 100 int player for 100 damage and 150 on a 50 int player, the difference is 50% more damage taken for the low int char. If a super duper mag hits a 100 int player for 200 and a 50 int player for 250, as it would because magic def is flat damage reduction, the difference is 25%. As you push the Magic attack higher, you reduce the delta, thus the discrepancy between low int players. Even though I think there's no excuse for not doing like 2 hours worth of int, which would get you easily over 70 int nowadays - it's fairly fruitless for mobs with massive magic attack like elders as the damage mitigation as a percentage remains largely unaltered.[/quote]

[quote="SAPPER"]I haven't tried elder mags yet, but watching people giving jackelpup a hard time because he wants a bit more balance is nonsense. He can't possibly have made his character to cater for a mob that didn't exist. It is completely reasonable that he would want to hunt them as effectively as anyone else. Just give them a set min/max damage so that all characters are affected equally.[/quote]

[quote="GORBASH"][quote="SAPPER"]I haven't tried elder mags yet, but watching people giving jackelpup a hard time because he wants a bit more balance is nonsense. He can't possibly have made his character to cater for a mob that didn't exist. It is completely reasonable that he would want to hunt them as effectively as anyone else. Just give them a set min/max damage so that all characters are affected equally.[/quote] +1[/quote]

[quote="OXANA"][quote="GORBASH"][quote="SAPPER"]I haven't tried elder mags yet, but watching people giving jackelpup a hard time because he wants a bit more balance is nonsense. He can't possibly have made his character to cater for a mob that didn't exist. It is completely reasonable that he would want to hunt them as effectively as anyone else. Just give them a set min/max damage so that all characters are affected equally.[/quote] +1[/quote] Top end Int mobs have always existed, especially bosses. Get around 50 Int. Struggle doing many bosses so prolly never go. Could never hold the stone to any degree more than a second. Be in the lowest 1% of the game if not the lowest player Int wise at cap. Complain about a new mob because it doesn't suit your crazy build (who the fuk wouldn't heal to higher Int anyway before capping lol? Bingo, job done. Me? 35 Int and I hunt Elders 'cos I can be arsed to hit 'n' run (far from cap ofc). Really shocked at the arrogance and stupidity of a certain person (but it's not about him 'cos many capped players or close to the cap have about 50 Int right? LOL [/quote]

[quote="OXANA"]Gorbash...Why should he hunt them like everybody else when his build is not like 99/100% of other people? Should Fin/Isylver cater only for him? [/quote]

[quote="PROWLER"]Oxana you have sadly misunderstood and missed the point.[/quote]

[quote="WHOOSH"][quote="OXANA"][quote="GORBASH"][quote="SAPPER"]I haven't tried elder mags yet, but watching people giving jackelpup a hard time because he wants a bit more balance is nonsense. He can't possibly have made his character to cater for a mob that didn't exist. It is completely reasonable that he would want to hunt them as effectively as anyone else. Just give them a set min/max damage so that all characters are affected equally.[/quote] +1[/quote] Top end Int mobs have always existed, especially bosses. Get around 50 Int. Struggle doing many bosses so prolly never go. Could never hold the stone to any degree more than a second. Be in the lowest 1% of the game if not the lowest player Int wise at cap. Complain about a new mob because it doesn't suit your crazy build (who the fuk wouldn't heal to higher Int anyway before capping lol? Bingo, job done. Me? 35 Int and I hunt Elders 'cos I can be arsed to hit 'n' run (far from cap ofc). Really shocked at the arrogance and stupidity of a certain person (but it's not about him 'cos many capped players or close to the cap have about 50 Int right? LOL [/quote] We don’t often agree on the forum, but fair play for this post my man. [/quote]

[quote="WHOOSH"][quote="PROWLER"]Oxana you have sadly misunderstood and missed the point.[/quote] You keep saying this and backing it up with zero argument other than repeating the pointless sentence ‘it’s not about me’ and maybe a jibe at someone’s intelligence (who is clearly light years ahead of you in intelligence levels, dumb dumb). Maybe this will make all the idiots with pathetically low int, who cry about boss damage, mage damage and now elder mag’s damage either put on some fucking robes, do some int or use some MD access which as has been stated any multitude of times - is cheap as fuck to make, but no you wanna wear your full eva/attack gear/whatever else and come whine on the forum it’s too hard. If anything is dumb it’s you mate, it’s like talking to a brick wall.[/quote]

[quote="AENUS"][quote="SAPPER"]I haven't tried elder mags yet, but watching people giving jackelpup a hard time because he wants a bit more balance is nonsense. He can't possibly have made his character to cater for a mob that didn't exist. It is completely reasonable that he would want to hunt them as effectively as anyone else. Just give them a set min/max damage so that all characters are affected equally.[/quote] Except he complained about normal mags for the same reason claiming he couldnt hunt them at all[/quote]

[quote="PROWLER"][quote="WHOOSH"] ....You keep saying this and backing it up with zero argument ....[/quote] 14mins 30secs 100kills x Leiver Beasts (0 HP Pots) 26mins 40secs 100kills x Elite Lizardmen (0 HP Pots) 16mins 40secs 100kills x Drazil (0 HP Pots) 13mins 50secs 100kills x Beast Lord Guardians (0 HP Pots) 16mins 30secs 100kills x Enraged Boars (0 HP Pots) 28mins 20secs 100kills x Hellish Trolls (0 HP Pots) [b]2hrs 10mins 100kills x Magma Beast (330 HP Pots)[/b] 5th time I have posted that. [/quote]

[quote="WHOOSH"]So of what use is this information? All I can see is you being used to being spoilt with 100% eva on all melee mobs has left you with a huge sense of entitlement that all mobs should do zero damage ever to you now? These mobs drop Nega weapons, amongst many other high value goods. Put in some work in for the top drops - or don’t, just don’t come to the forum whining for things to be changed to suit your stupid character build. It’s just like the people with 80 int who whine they get one banged by magic, like it’s anyone else’s fault but their own lol, it honestly fries my brain trying to understand the logic. Thanks for helping prove my point, refer to my previous post from the second paragraph on. :)[/quote]

[quote="AENUS"]U only lvl a high dex char for one reason and that's pvp as dex above 165-170 is meaningless when hunting trolls and bosses as u can still get 99% eva on trolls and all high end bosses have 300+ def dex so dont complain that ur pvp build char cant hunt mags Not that u have hunted trolls for stats as u dont even have 200 str which makes ur dex even more pointless and your build even more questionable [/quote]

[quote="PROWLER"]This thread (as were some others) was started by a player in game who raised a query regarding the Magma’s attack. The basis of the debate was (and still is) that (capped) melee players with low INT do not have balanced access to the enormously generous drop file that the Magma Beasts hold. The introduction of the Elder Magma Beasts has deepened the imbalance. This thread (like the other similar ones) is not about me and never was. Instigating and continuing personal attacks does not progress the debate and accomplishes nothing. There have been two positive suggestions; 1) Melee Spawn Zone (Varsan / Ravensoul) 2) Increase the power of the Range 1 Attack (STR/DEX) and remove Range 1 INT Attack Neither of those suggestions disadvantage mages and both serve to bring “balance” to allow melee players (especially low INT) the same opportunity to “farm” the end game mobs that now exist for that purpose. None of those suggestions unfairly gives an advantage to anyone. They also both address the OP’s concern(s). That, I believe, is the purpose of this thread and is what the OP was looking to discuss. [/quote]

[quote="ROCH"][quote=]14mins 30secs 100kills x Leiver Beasts (0 HP Pots) 26mins 40secs 100kills x Elite Lizardmen (0 HP Pots) 16mins 40secs 100kills x Drazil (0 HP Pots) 13mins 50secs 100kills x Beast Lord Guardians (0 HP Pots) 16mins 30secs 100kills x Enraged Boars (0 HP Pots) 28mins 20secs 100kills x Hellish Trolls (0 HP Pots) 2hrs 10mins 100kills x Magma Beast (330 HP Pots) [/quote] Ok, I can try to address that, at least a little. Here's a non-exhaustive list of factors that contribute to the disparity you are pointing out. A) You are not comparing like for like. Which of the other mobs in that list have magus healing them or whelps divebombing you? That's a significant difference for a few reasons: • Whelps force you to have a more cautious playstyle. More cautious = extra time spent being inefficient. As a knuckle character, you have no way of stopping a charging whelp. No risk of getting bombed at the other mobs you listed. • Magus force you to spend a lot of time being inefficient. Either through luring them, avoiding them, abandoning mobs part-way through kills. Inefficient if you either keep killing the magus when it's healing your target, extra time in harms way means more pots spent per mob and more time is taken to kill. This doesn't happen at any of the other mobs. B) Mags have very high HP (5500) • More time spent in harm's way • Take longer to kill C) You are not playing the optimum strategy for magma beast, whereas you are for all the other mobs. • At the other mobs, you can essentially remain pretty much stationary and let them swarm around you. Not the case at mags, lots of faffing about to be done. • You can use 3rd knuckle to wear down groups of mobs whereas you cant at mags. • You are using a range 1 weapon which puts you at the mercy of whelps. • Are you leveraging your characters strong points while mitigating the weaknesses? Gear choice, strategy choice. D) You are not optimally geared for magma beasts (Strategy extension) • Are you using the best gear setup, within individual stat restraints, to produce the optimal result from magma beasts? You are for most of the others • Range 1 has a significantly harder time due to whelps and pulling individual mobs from a pack. Bow is blatantly the best choice for the job (unfortunately). Keeps you out of harms way even to the extent of not getting hit at all, leveraging your strengths and mitigating your weaknesses. E) You are not the optimal stat build for magma beasts. • Once you've committed to this, it can't be helped. It is unarguably a factor and a good stat choice will make you faster at killing mags while mitigating damage, though the same applies to all the other mobs. A non-exhaustive list of at least a few points why there is a disparity. Essentially, the compared mobs are so different you can't make an effective comparison. A proper comparison would be a two characters with fairly identical gear makeup, similar str and dex but a difference in INT - both played by the same character for the same duration. That's comparable - ish. Even then there are extra factors that would tie into that: how busy was mags at each of those tests? Busier mags is significantly harder than if you're the only one there. ANYWAYS it doesn't really matter - that was just to address what you were pointing out Jac [quote=] 1) Melee Spawn Zone (Varsan / Ravensoul) 2) Increase the power of the Range 1 Attack (STR/DEX) and remove Range 1 INT Attack Neither of those suggestions disadvantage mages and both serves to bring “balance” to allow melee players (especially low INT) the same opportunity to “farm” the end game mobs that now exist for that purpose. None of those suggestions unfairly gives an advantage to anyone. They also both address the OP’s concern(s). That, I believe, is the purpose of this thread and is what the OP was looking to discuss. [/quote] So going back to the OP's original point - I don't personally see it as a major issue, the problem is not insurmountable, as we've pretty much gone through. But, if everyone feels the opposite then I can't really argue with that. With regards to the suggestions, doesn't a melee only mag with higher str and dex discriminate against lower DEX builds? as we've already treaded that route for low int, it's only just that the same point can at least be made for that. A bit tongue in cheek but that's what tends to happen when the' D' word starts getting used. Look, I'm sure it would be fine if that was implemented. It just turns mags from one the most interesting mobs that you actually have to use a little bit of planning, space management, alertness and brainpower into another 'stand on the spot and watch netflix' mob, just like all the others. [/quote]

[quote="WHOOSH"]+1 Roch[/quote]