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Gorshak weapons dont make sense...
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_SEPHIROTH_ |
"GHOSTLORD"If you want to calculate DPS you'll have to take auras into the calculation as well, which is near impossible. Lets take auras into consideration. A top axer will have 3 auras useful to him (3 amazing auras 2 of which arguably game breakingly so) A top swordie will have 1 useful aura. A top Spear will have 1 useful aura (2nd) A top Bow will have 3 (dodge, trace an 4th) A top knuckler will have 2 (dodge and 5th) S0rcerer made a good post that rung true with what I was experiencing on Acaelus even when he was like 30- 50 strength above almost everyone. "S0RCERER"4th = 100% hit + 35 (guaranteed damage). So your justification for swords weapon damage and speed being so sh*t is that we can 'shock' noobs with significantly lower strength than us. woooooo Also, it's not to my advantage that sword get buffed. Aca is dropping sword for bow eventually and is more a mage now anyways. Just know that sword has never been as good as people made out.
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[quote="_SEPHIROTH_"][quote="GHOSTLORD"]If you want to calculate DPS you'll have to take auras into the calculation as well, which is near impossible.
Looking at this thread I think it's alright. [/quote]
Lets take auras into consideration.
A top axer will have 3 auras useful to him (3 amazing auras 2 of which arguably game breakingly so)
A top swordie will have 1 useful aura.
A top Spear will have 1 useful aura (2nd)
A top Bow will have 3 (dodge, trace an 4th)
A top knuckler will have 2 (dodge and 5th)
S0rcerer made a good post that rung true with what I was experiencing on Acaelus even when he was like 30- 50 strength above almost everyone.
[quote="S0RCERER"]4th = 100% hit + 35 (guaranteed damage).
5th = 150% hit
If you hit someone for 50 damage with your normal swing:
4th = 50dmg + 35dmg = 85dmg (4th)
5th = 50*1.5 = 75dmg (5th)
5th only becomes worth using once you do above 70 dmg with a normal swing:
4th = 70dmg + 35dmg = 105dmg (4th)
5th = 70*1.5 = 105dmg (5th)
This makes 5th a good noob-killer, but not that great vs. people that have the same str as you and it's abysmal vs. people stronger than yourself.
If your normal swing does 100 dmg to a lower level player results are as follows:
4th = 100dmg + 35dmg = 135dmg (4th)
5th = 100*1.5 = 150dmg (5th)
This gap only gets bigger and bigger the larger the already existing gap is between the 'noob' and the sword user.[/quote]
So your justification for swords weapon damage and speed being so sh*t is that we can 'shock' noobs with significantly lower strength than us. woooooo
Also, it's not to my advantage that sword get buffed. Aca is dropping sword for bow eventually and is more a mage now anyways. Just know that sword has never been as good as people made out.
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#46 2014/07/18 10:46:05 |
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GHOSTLORD |
"_SEPHIROTH_".... Each class / weapon can only use 1 aura at a time. I don't see the point in listing which ones you can chose per class. In the end it's all situational... Also.. Trace? 0o Since when is that useful in any real situations. The same can be said for s0rc's calculation. I'm sure they're fine, they always are. However it's based on a 'what if situation'. As it stands anyone who is able to use the sword will be able to do damage with 5th to nearly everyone, no? Theorycrafting is fine and all but in the end there's at least 100 situations you need to take into account - which takes time. Anyway I don't get the strong reactions in this thread. You want to nerf human weapons while dsoma still have to wait for new ones because you're so far behind? Sylver said there won't be any nerfs and rightfully so. "ISYLVER" If you read it carefully it says no NERFS but nowhere does it say none of the weapons will get changed (buffed) in due time if deemed needed. You are free to put your own time frames on it but I'd strongly suggest keeping them to yourself. For all we know it'll be changed soon even though it was said as unlikely you should always keep an open mind. I like this thread and I liked reading the feedback. However just because you don't agree with an item or don' t see it the same way as us doesn't mean an item is 'shit'. Especialy when I don't see any official arguments against sword in particular. Be patient and make sure to account each and every factor you can think of in your arguments.
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[quote="GHOSTLORD"][quote="_SEPHIROTH_"]....
[/quote]
Each class / weapon can only use 1 aura at a time. I don't see the point in listing which ones you can chose per class. In the end it's all situational... Also.. Trace? 0o Since when is that useful in any real situations.
The same can be said for s0rc's calculation. I'm sure they're fine, they always are. However it's based on a 'what if situation'. As it stands anyone who is able to use the sword will be able to do damage with 5th to nearly everyone, no? Theorycrafting is fine and all but in the end there's at least 100 situations you need to take into account - which takes time.
Anyway I don't get the strong reactions in this thread. You want to nerf human weapons while dsoma still have to wait for new ones because you're so far behind? Sylver said there won't be any nerfs and rightfully so.
[quote="ISYLVER"]
What I will say now is that none of these weapons will be nerfed. If it comes to the case where we feel they need changing when more tags are apparent in game of these weapons then we will look at it.
For now there purely isn't enough ingame/ have they been used enough to rationalise any changes or improvements to other weapons.
[/quote]
If you read it carefully it says no NERFS but nowhere does it say none of the weapons will get changed (buffed) in due time if deemed needed. You are free to put your own time frames on it but I'd strongly suggest keeping them to yourself. For all we know it'll be changed soon even though it was said as unlikely you should always keep an open mind.
I like this thread and I liked reading the feedback. However just because you don't agree with an item or don' t see it the same way as us doesn't mean an item is 'shit'. Especialy when I don't see any official arguments against sword in particular.
Be patient and make sure to account each and every factor you can think of in your arguments.
[/quote]
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#47 2014/07/18 11:18:00 |
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SICKK |
Never asked for a nerf.
Sword gets 9-9 speed E while Knuck gets 12-18 -50 recoil. balanced ayeeeeee |
#48 2014/07/18 11:29:02 |
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ZYZZ |
"GHOSTLORD"
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[quote="ZYZZ"][quote="GHOSTLORD"]
The same can be said for s0rc's calculation. I'm sure they're fine, they always are. However it's based on a 'what if situation'. As it stands anyone who is able to use the sword will be able to do damage with 5th to nearly everyone, no?
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#49 2014/07/18 11:34:09 |
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_SEPHIROTH_ |
There wont be any epic/intense gor swords ingame, they'll all be broken going for +4 to compete with other weapons.
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#50 2014/07/18 11:34:56 |
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ZYZZ |
 Future teller. |
#51 2014/07/18 11:53:11 |
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SATAN2 |
"_SEPHIROTH_"There wont be any epic/intense gor swords ingame, they'll all be broken going for +4 to compete with other weapons. This, and agree with your other post. Sword is a seriously underused wep. If it was as good as some are making out on here then there characters like Acaelus and Fuji wouldn't be dropping it. Sword needs some love. Again, this is coming from someone that doesn't use sword so I have nothing to gain personally. Also I don't think anyone on here is really bitching or calling the changes made 'shit'. I'm sure everyone appreciates the new content, just think it might need a bit of tweaking slightly. We're just having a discussion and the vast majority agree on the nux issue (how often do people on each side of the EQ/FT/NM divide agree?!).
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[quote="SATAN2"][quote="_SEPHIROTH_"]There wont be any epic/intense gor swords ingame, they'll all be broken going for +4 to compete with other weapons.[/quote]
This, and agree with your other post. Sword is a seriously underused wep. If it was as good as some are making out on here then there characters like Acaelus and Fuji wouldn't be dropping it.
Sword needs some love. Again, this is coming from someone that doesn't use sword so I have nothing to gain personally.
Also I don't think anyone on here is really bitching or calling the changes made 'shit'. I'm sure everyone appreciates the new content, just think it might need a bit of tweaking slightly. We're just having a discussion and the vast majority agree on the nux issue (how often do people on each side of the EQ/FT/NM divide agree?!).[/quote]
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#52 2014/07/18 12:29:07 |
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CYROX |
Ghost, the whole thread is full of official arguments against sword. Why does everything also need to be complicated when trying to justify its stats. Take auras off the table. You can calculate the DPS ignoring the auras. 5th sword is the only decent aura and a handful of ppl would have. 4th nux however, everyone can have. You also forget nux has a beast of an aura; dodge.
Simply it all down. Is sword underused and a dead weapon? Yes. What are 90% of ppl saying in this thread? That none of these stats make sense. Why should we have to wait in hope that a weapon is buffed? Such a simple change as introducing endgame weapons can have an impact on players characters that could total 100's of hours gameplay. I don't think the community feedback is taken seriously enough. Some Ppl may have trained sword recently and now forced to drop skill and raise nux instead. Only to have sword buffed again 2 months down the line. If you want to get into the realms of introducing new levels of weapons every month and balancing and tweaking as time moves on then you seriously need to sort the skill system put first.
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[quote="CYROX"]Ghost, the whole thread is full of official arguments against sword. Why does everything also need to be complicated when trying to justify its stats. Take auras off the table. You can calculate the DPS ignoring the auras. 5th sword is the only decent aura and a handful of ppl would have. 4th nux however, everyone can have. You also forget nux has a beast of an aura; dodge.
Simply it all down. Is sword underused and a dead weapon? Yes. What are 90% of ppl saying in this thread? That none of these stats make sense.
Why should we have to wait in hope that a weapon is buffed? Such a simple change as introducing endgame weapons can have an impact on players characters that could total 100's of hours gameplay. I don't think the community feedback is taken seriously enough. Some
Ppl may have trained sword recently and now forced to drop skill and raise nux instead. Only to have sword buffed again 2 months down the line.
If you want to get into the realms of introducing new levels of weapons every month and balancing and tweaking as time moves on then you seriously need to sort the skill system put first.
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#53 2014/07/18 12:31:49 |
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ACAELUS |
"SARUMAN"Ironic how the main person asking for a sword buff uses sword... Fyi im now staff bow!!!! |
#54 2014/07/18 12:34:19 |
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HOHOHO |
"CYROX"Ghost, the whole thread is full of official arguments against sword. Why does everything also need to be complicated when trying to justify its stats. Take auras off the table. You can calculate the DPS ignoring the auras. 5th sword is the only decent aura and a handful of ppl would have. 4th nux however, everyone can have. You also forget nux has a beast of an aura; dodge. Agreed.
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[quote="HOHOHO"][quote="CYROX"]Ghost, the whole thread is full of official arguments against sword. Why does everything also need to be complicated when trying to justify its stats. Take auras off the table. You can calculate the DPS ignoring the auras. 5th sword is the only decent aura and a handful of ppl would have. 4th nux however, everyone can have. You also forget nux has a beast of an aura; dodge.
Simply it all down. Is sword underused and a dead weapon? Yes. What are 90% of ppl saying in this thread? That none of these stats make sense.
Why should we have to wait in hope that a weapon is buffed? Such a simple change as introducing endgame weapons can have an impact on players characters that could total 100's of hours gameplay. I don't think the community feedback is taken seriously enough. Some
Ppl may have trained sword recently and now forced to drop skill and raise nux instead. Only to have sword buffed again 2 months down the line.
If you want to get into the realms of introducing new levels of weapons every month and balancing and tweaking as time moves on then you seriously need to sort the skill system put first.
[/quote]
Agreed.[/quote]
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#55 2014/07/18 12:37:48 |
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OPENTHEDOOR |
Ghost/Dan
I am pretty impartial using neither knuck or sword. Knuck got a huge buff to increase useage as hardly anyone used it in hsoma. Fair play, I completely agree. Just how many sword users are there exactly? Because two of the highest (Aca and Fuji are both reskilling). There is no demand for any swords on the emporium or ingame. I'd make a counter argument there won't be any sword users left unless this gorshak wep gets a little increase? I can see only a handful of chars using sword. I wonder how long Horus wolf and Zao will stay sword.. (Granted none of these really play anymore?)
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[quote="OPENTHEDOOR"]Ghost/Dan
I am pretty impartial using neither knuck or sword.
Knuck got a huge buff to increase useage as hardly anyone used it in hsoma.
Fair play, I completely agree.
Just how many sword users are there exactly? Because two of the highest (Aca and Fuji are both reskilling).
There is no demand for any swords on the emporium or ingame.
I'd make a counter argument there won't be any sword users left unless this gorshak wep gets a little increase?
I can see only a handful of chars using sword.
I wonder how long Horus wolf and Zao will stay sword.. (Granted none of these really play anymore?)
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#56 2014/07/18 12:39:43 |
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OPENTHEDOOR |
I make Gisado the only mid-high level swordie I have seen leveling.
Erebor another mid-high swordie dropping skill as well. |
#57 2014/07/18 12:41:31 |
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ZYZZ |
"OPENTHEDOOR" No demand for much unless its a bow in the emporium really. Sidenote, Aca is reskilling for dex. Not against changes to sword however we haven't seen anything decent drop in terms of the sword coupled with a 5th aura on someone, currently Horus still has the best ripper ingame attack wise (I think) and he still does damage. Always said for the last month or so, whatever I get from Gorshak thats epic is what I'll reskill after I'm done with axe, whether its sword or spear.
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[quote="ZYZZ"][quote="OPENTHEDOOR"]
Just how many sword users are there exactly? Because two of the highest (Aca and Fuji are both reskilling).
There is no demand for any swords on the emporium or ingame.
I'd make a counter argument there won't be any sword users left unless this gorshak wep gets a little increase?
I can see only a handful of chars using sword.
I wonder how long Horus wolf and Zao will stay sword.. (Granted none of these really play anymore?)
[/quote]
No demand for much unless its a bow in the emporium really.
Sidenote, Aca is reskilling for dex.
Not against changes to sword however we haven't seen anything decent drop in terms of the sword coupled with a 5th aura on someone, currently Horus still has the best ripper ingame attack wise (I think) and he still does damage.
Always said for the last month or so, whatever I get from Gorshak thats epic is what I'll reskill after I'm done with axe, whether its sword or spear.[/quote]
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#58 2014/07/18 12:43:33 |
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OPENTHEDOOR |
Knuckles are in high demand.
Spears have picked up in value. No matter what he is reskilling for, it's still a swordie less than a week ago. |
#59 2014/07/18 12:46:24 |
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BRAINDATA |
What are peoples thoughts on 2h swords being speed D standard? This is something I've always thought needed doing.
Also should 4th sword have a cooldown similar to knux? |
#60 2014/07/18 13:09:06 |
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