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IPHIOS |
"KEY"people need to remember that on esoma all weapons above a certain str ( i think it was 95 maybee) gained str at the same rate, hence the reason every single person on the server just levelled with bow as u had the range and u gained dex still That isn't the case. It was rumoured at first but wasn't true. People used bow for dex.
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[quote="IPHIOS"][quote="KEY"]people need to remember that on esoma all weapons above a certain str ( i think it was 95 maybee) gained str at the same rate, hence the reason every single person on the server just levelled with bow as u had the range and u gained dex still
[/quote]
That isn't the case. It was rumoured at first but wasn't true.
People used bow for dex.[/quote]
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#46 2013/12/20 22:28:27 |
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BELKA |
"GHOSTLORD" The point I am making is that there are two worlds: before 100 DEX and after 100 DEX. Until you hit the slow I think the stat distributions are fine - just like dsoma. After you hit the 100 DEX slow you can still gain tons of STR (up to 170) but very little DEX (maybe 3-10 more at max?) - therefore any weapon that is raising STR quickly and at low % is clearly superior. If you use a knuck over 100 DEX then you get STR much much slower than Axe, and get no significant additional DEX to make it worthwhile. While doing this you waste % that an axe user can then put into INT whereas the knuck user finishes their STR at a higher level and has less free %. Put simply: After 100 DEX it is pointless to use any weapon that doesnt give much more str than dex since you have 7 times more STR to gain than you have DEX.
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[quote="BELKA"][quote="GHOSTLORD"][quote]
The only thing I am confident about is that Knuck and Sword are very very inefficient for this state. They will give tiny DEX advantages over axe and spear, while the STR weps will race to the STR cap faster and with much less % used. That's gonna be a huge problem for a melee-based character without axe/spear and bow.
[/quote]
I disagree with this, though I only experienced it at a low lvl.
My lvl 15 pure knuckle char has 25 str 22.2 dex.
My mate is a pure sword char has 28.3 str 21.7 dex and is one lvl higher.
I really would like to see how this ends up for the knuxer, so far I noticed that the 'grind' is longer on mobs (so far it has resulted in more drops) but when you do get to the next mob it'll be easier since you have more dex.
Again, this is low lvl stuff, I can only imagine how it'll end up at high lvl.
[/quote]
The point I am making is that there are two worlds: before 100 DEX and after 100 DEX.
Until you hit the slow I think the stat distributions are fine - just like dsoma. After you hit the 100 DEX slow you can still gain tons of STR (up to 170) but very little DEX (maybe 3-10 more at max?) - therefore any weapon that is raising STR quickly and at low % is clearly superior.
If you use a knuck over 100 DEX then you get STR much much slower than Axe, and get no significant additional DEX to make it worthwhile. While doing this you waste % that an axe user can then put into INT whereas the knuck user finishes their STR at a higher level and has less free %.
Put simply: After 100 DEX it is pointless to use any weapon that doesnt give much more str than dex since you have 7 times more STR to gain than you have DEX.
[/quote]
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#47 2013/12/20 22:50:38 |
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FUJITORA |
"KEY"whats the point in levelling with sword after 100 dex if str gains are ALOT slower, when perfect defence is ridiculous, they in theory dont have to upgrade any weapons to level with... so not only do they get faster strengh gains they have a gaurenteed speed B axe. You dont. You plan ahead and make sure you reach 100 dex when you get to 171 str at the same time.
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[quote="FUJITORA"][quote="KEY"]whats the point in levelling with sword after 100 dex if str gains are ALOT slower, when perfect defence is ridiculous, they in theory dont have to upgrade any weapons to level with... so not only do they get faster strengh gains they have a gaurenteed speed B axe.[/quote]
You dont.
You plan ahead and make sure you reach 100 dex when you get to 171 str at the same time. [/quote]
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#48 2013/12/20 22:51:00 |
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S0RCERER |
I'm sure Finito can back this up, but to my knowledge, using bow above 100dex grants you approximately 0.1dex for every 0.3str you gain.
It's not nearly as bad a picture as people are painting. This scenario isn't particularly bad if you exclude comparisons to devil archers/knucklers as all other devils (maybe even sword now with the change) get barely over 100dex due to the same slowdown effect.
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[quote="S0RCERER"]I'm sure Finito can back this up, but to my knowledge, using bow above 100dex grants you approximately 0.1dex for every 0.3str you gain.
It's not nearly as bad a picture as people are painting.
This scenario isn't particularly bad if you exclude comparisons to devil archers/knucklers as all other devils (maybe even sword now with the change) get barely over 100dex due to the same slowdown effect.[/quote]
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#49 2013/12/21 00:13:34 |
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BELKA |
"S0RCERER"I'm sure Finito can back this up, but to my knowledge, using bow above 100dex grants you approximately 0.1dex for every 0.3str you gain. Devils aren't bothered by a choice of weapons - it's a big thing for humans to decide how they want to level and pvp. Nobody is arguing about the end results and balance of STR and DEX, only about what they actually are, so that informed decisions can be made. I agree that we'd all love clarification about the nature of the major DEX slow at least!
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[quote="BELKA"][quote="S0RCERER"]I'm sure Finito can back this up, but to my knowledge, using bow above 100dex grants you approximately 0.1dex for every 0.3str you gain.
It's not nearly as bad a picture as people are painting.
This scenario isn't particularly bad if you exclude comparisons to devil archers/knucklers as all other devils (maybe even sword now with the change) get barely over 100dex due to the same slowdown effect.[/quote]
Devils aren't bothered by a choice of weapons - it's a big thing for humans to decide how they want to level and pvp. Nobody is arguing about the end results and balance of STR and DEX, only about what they actually are, so that informed decisions can be made.
I agree that we'd all love clarification about the nature of the major DEX slow at least![/quote]
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#50 2013/12/21 00:30:38 |
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GRAVIJA |
From my own experience I always found the 100.0 Dex cap to create a lot of confusion that people are better off doing a Str weapon from 100.0 Dex, which usually seems to make more sense.
I've always done pure bow on Hsoma because what I found, is that yes 100.0 Dex is a soft cap, and yes you will gain about 0.4 dex a level with a pure bow, however after about 108-110 Dex it actually starts to speed up again but because of that initial slow down people are not willing to continue with a Dex weapon so never actually find this out. I've also found that after 100.0 Dex, the further your Str is above your Dex, the slower you will actually gain Dex, I've tryed and tested this many times and it always came back to me with the same result. I honestly think 125-130 Dex is perfectly achievable prodiving the player only ever uses a Dex weapon to level with (obviously Bow being the best choice). I realise this is alot slower than other pirate servers were, however, the game mechanics have not changed. I'de love to see Finito or iSylver make a level 100 pure Hsoma archer on a test server (super high rate ofcourse) and post a screenshot of the results, I think alot of people would be suprised at the outcome of total str and dex gained.
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[quote="GRAVIJA"]From my own experience I always found the 100.0 Dex cap to create a lot of confusion that people are better off doing a Str weapon from 100.0 Dex, which usually seems to make more sense.
I've always done pure bow on Hsoma because what I found, is that yes 100.0 Dex is a soft cap, and yes you will gain about 0.4 dex a level with a pure bow, however after about 108-110 Dex it actually starts to speed up again but because of that initial slow down people are not willing to continue with a Dex weapon so never actually find this out.
I've also found that after 100.0 Dex, the further your Str is above your Dex, the slower you will actually gain Dex, I've tryed and tested this many times and it always came back to me with the same result.
I honestly think 125-130 Dex is perfectly achievable prodiving the player only ever uses a Dex weapon to level with (obviously Bow being the best choice).
I realise this is alot slower than other pirate servers were, however, the game mechanics have not changed.
I'de love to see Finito or iSylver make a level 100 pure Hsoma archer on a test server (super high rate ofcourse) and post a screenshot of the results, I think alot of people would be suprised at the outcome of total str and dex gained.[/quote]
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#51 2013/12/21 06:57:41 |
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ISYLVER [Staff] |
As far as I'm aware the esoma dex at 100 bug is not in place here's the values straight from the tb_inc table.
amount rate 90 8 95 4 100 2 200 1 So at 100 dex is becomes 2x slower than it was at 95. |
#52 2013/12/21 07:06:18 |
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BELKA |
"ISYLVER"As far as I'm aware the esoma dex at 100 bug is not in place here's the values straight from the tb_inc table. Thanks a lot! And what is the maximum achievable base DEX? If it is based on STR (and STR is 167 or 170) there must be a number?
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[quote="BELKA"][quote="ISYLVER"]As far as I'm aware the esoma dex at 100 bug is not in place here's the values straight from the tb_inc table.
amount rate
90 8
95 4
100 2
200 1
So at 100 dex is becomes 2x slower than it was at 95.
[/quote]
Thanks a lot!
And what is the maximum achievable base DEX? If it is based on STR (and STR is 167 or 170) there must be a number? [/quote]
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#53 2013/12/21 08:08:26 |
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ISYLVER [Staff] |
"BELKA""ISYLVER"As far as I'm aware the esoma dex at 100 bug is not in place here's the values straight from the tb_inc table. 214 is the cap if you can manage that before the str cap of course.
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[quote="ISYLVER"][quote="BELKA"][quote="ISYLVER"]As far as I'm aware the esoma dex at 100 bug is not in place here's the values straight from the tb_inc table.
amount rate
90 8
95 4
100 2
200 1
So at 100 dex is becomes 2x slower than it was at 95.
[/quote]
Thanks a lot!
And what is the maximum achievable base DEX? If it is based on STR (and STR is 167 or 170) there must be a number? [/quote]
214 is the cap if you can manage that before the str cap of course.[/quote]
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#54 2013/12/21 09:02:25 |
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GHOSTLORD |
"BELKA""ISYLVER"As far as I'm aware the esoma dex at 100 bug is not in place here's the values straight from the tb_inc table. Stat caps on mobs are always based on STR, so after 171 STR you won't be able to get dex. This also means that doing pure bow (would give you 120-130 dex at 171 STR I suspect?) is the dexiest route. I wish I could remember my stats on the test server (human char) at lvl 100 before I went new mobs. :(
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[quote="GHOSTLORD"][quote="BELKA"][quote="ISYLVER"]As far as I'm aware the esoma dex at 100 bug is not in place here's the values straight from the tb_inc table.
amount rate
90 8
95 4
100 2
200 1
So at 100 dex is becomes 2x slower than it was at 95.
[/quote]
Thanks a lot!
And what is the maximum achievable base DEX? If it is based on STR (and STR is 167 or 170) there must be a number? [/quote]
Stat caps on mobs are always based on STR, so after 171 STR you won't be able to get dex. This also means that doing pure bow (would give you 120-130 dex at 171 STR I suspect?) is the dexiest route.
I wish I could remember my stats on the test server (human char) at lvl 100 before I went new mobs. :([/quote]
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#55 2013/12/21 10:41:53 |
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MANTICORE |
100lvl with bow is 160str/180dex around there on the TEST server
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#56 2013/12/21 14:37:03 |
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GRAVIJA |
From experience, 125-130 dex is doable whilst still managing 150-160 str. this may seem low but ide happily sacrifice 20 str for 20 dex, especially on Hsoma.
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#57 2013/12/21 14:38:57 |
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ACE |
on test server you could get 200 dex at BLG before capping str there
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#58 2013/12/21 14:47:36 |
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GHOSTLORD |
Im sorry to say that the test server is irrelevant to compare for dex as it was 2x faster than esoma.
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#59 2013/12/21 18:17:38 |
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BASIL |
If a monster has caps shouldn't you finish on the same stats regardless to what speed the server is on??
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#60 2013/12/21 23:18:02 |
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