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[quote="BL00D_SHOT"][quote="MUSASJI"] whilst hitting nearly every time from range(safety).[/quote] With the new dex across the board, I'd argue the opposite.... I miss a lot now and I receive damage a hell of a lot more, I'm wearing dex armour/accessories.... I can imagine it would be quite painful for an archer with no items. A lot of the points in this thread are viable but that one stuck out to me as it's not correct at all.[/quote]

[quote="MUSASJI"]Maybe it’s just because my dex stayed the same pre and post patch (at lvl 100) that it’s made me think that. Does a level 100 archer still have 200 dex? Either way archer’s are still pretty accurate and really and truly they do too much damage for how often they hit in my experience as a swordie. What do others think about this? Archers should definitely take big damage tbh. Maybe ever so slightly less than they currently do, but if one class can have their cake and eat it (as is currently the case) then say goodbye any class diversity.[/quote]

[quote="STRELKA"]Let's think of it this way: What was bad about the old system? other than Axers taking too little damage and mages probably doing too much damage...it was actually pretty perfectly balanced? There wasn't a single class that felt weak and unplayable, and if it was any it was an archer who didn't punch at least 15 levels. Now we can't have 10 more levels under the old system because DEX has a hard cap and archers would hit it straight away and gain no more, while other classes would fly up in STR and still cap DEX, So we do need the new point system. But since DEX and STR is now so much closer to each other, and defence (because now it's CON) is so much more similar across classes - we have a real imbalance between the attack people can do, and the damage they take. This manifests itself in weird, boring PVP where everyone's number one priority is to not get instakilled by taking damage from more than 1 person at once. It seems so logical to me to just bump up CON, and give each class the same amount of points to spend as the CON increases...so they get no extra boost in wisdom or int. And then if it's too much, or needs to be changed once someone gets a +30 con set in 6 months time....it can be changes again by removing the extra CON and points for it? I just don't see the issue here - the majority of the playerbase seems to be deeply unhappy with pvp at the moment (and representative of 1000s of hours of dsoma played and across all classes), and one solution is seemingly quite easy. [/quote]

[quote="DIOS"]Once Humans cap str at 110 will they hurt devil melle chars? If they do then that’s balance and that’s most likely why.[/quote]

[quote="STRELKA"][quote="DIOS"]Once Humans cap str at 110 will they hurt devil melle chars? If they do then that’s balance and that’s most likely why.[/quote] RvR doesn't factor into this, and is best kept to a different thread. RvR will always, always, always be fixed by the % system. Humans could have 3x the attack and defence of devils and the % system would balance it if attendence was consistent, given enough time. This thread is purely about the discussion of dsoma class balance. [/quote]

[quote="WAGAWAGA"]And then when con raised axer wear dex gear and then wth axer so op again, u just didnt answer on my question, if yare was goind dex gear u think it should be a problem for him?since dex between archer and axer not that bigdeal "sorry yare if im putting u always as exac". Just trying to say its all about gears now.[/quote]

[quote="STRELKA"][quote="WAGAWAGA"]And then when con raised axer wear dex gear and then wth axer so op again, u just didnt answer on my question, if yare was goind dex gear u think it should be a problem for him?since dex between archer and axer not that bigdeal "sorry yare if im putting u always as exac". Just trying to say its all about gears now.[/quote] If Yare wore a full Dex set he would still get 7 hit by me. If Musasji wore a dex set he would still get 5 hit by me. Yare in a dex set would not hit people any more than he already does in his ridiculous accuracy, and he would not hit for any more damage (he would still 4 hit Strelka and 4 hit Musasji - and hit like 50-60% of swings at A speed). There are some issues with Dex, and with gear, I agree with you. But there isn't much point talking about individual players in individual gear - because everyone is so different and most of the time people don't enable their armoury like Yare does. You don't know what gear I wear, I don't know what you are currently equipping. All we can talk about is how melee people play (everyone runs around and around - why?) and why some classes have it better than others (for example, archers with range compared to spear with no shield or dodge). [/quote]

[quote="YAREYAREDAZE"][quote="WAGAWAGA"]the problem is most of dsoma build they own char on str/acc set's and now they can feel the dmg since patch come and balanced,just giv it a chance and everyone ill go dex. Yare feeling bad about acc set but if he was going dex set i dont think he should have a problem at all. This is the biggest problem,nothing with the system. From my side[/quote] This is sort of true waga. Everyone is wearing armor sets that ONLY provide offensive power (exceot stones). I WANT to wear a set of upgraded con accessories, They just aren't in the game yet lol...... If I had 2x 7-8con rings - lets assume 5 base +3 upgraded 7-8 Con neck (just like average dsoma upgraded SH) 5-7 Con ear (Souls ear) thats about 26-29 con. That is probably enough to reduce people's damage to manageable levels. The issue is, making a set of gear like this, would literally take 4-5 months, and most of dsoma would have got bored by then. We need a band-aid solution now as many people have mentioned. And then MAYBE? remove it in the future if it turns out not to be needed a year down the line when everyone has access to the new gear. ----- People talking about wearing dex sets too. This doesn't work at all if EVERYONE does it because then it completely counters each others out. If I as an axer have 170dex and Spear has 180, If I wear a 10dex set, I now have 50% hit/miss chance against him. But if he ALSO wears a 10dex set, my set now does nothing of value does it and we have the same hit/miss chance on each other as before. This basically means whoever has the most ridiculously upgraded dex set (stones) is the only one who is actually benefiting from the dex arms race. Its also abit boring to only have one useful upgrade in entire dsoma as I have mentioned, not good game design and makes other upgrades obsolete [/quote]

[quote="STRELKA"][quote="YAREYAREDAZE"] We need a band-aid solution now as many people have mentioned. And then MAYBE? remove it in the future if it turns out not to be needed a year down the line when everyone has access to the new gear. [/quote] Aye - that's the point I was making earlier. Since we have standardised stats, Finito can modify them without 'ruining anyone's character'. If a sword has maximum values of 210 STR, 170 DEX, 210 CON and 644 points - why can't the CON cap be raised (lets say by 10) and the player get 10 more points. These will all go into CON unless the player wants 10 more wis and to be squishy (which nobody will pick). At a future point they can then drop the max value down by the 10 points and refund the points (taking away any extra that were given to be put into CON) if they feel like gear is making people too tanky. [/quote]

[quote="FRINGE"]perhaps allow spending 2 point per stat after soft stat caps? to allow some diversity? so u cud spend 20 point for 10 more dex or con etc[/quote]

[quote="TYROZET"]How about this as a theory - Archers arnt overpowered there just more noticeable at the minute as there the only ones getting shots in as everyone else is running round not engaging to scared to get stoned as that is only ending one way Archers have less str and con then any other class anyway so not hitting harder or tanking more hits then anyone else A con increase is only going to result in humans hurting us even less than they do now, which they feel is an issue Why not look at a 5-10 drop in str across the board for example, people can then engage and take less damage, and we will hurt humans slightly less without them hurting us even less[/quote]

[quote="WAGAWAGA"]Just a second if im not wrong u wana change dsoma just cuz stones have a good dex set isnt a bit personalty against stones, i proly know that we sped more then u and sorry for saying that but while u was chilling i worked hard for this set and im not talking about 3-4 month we been working on it years ago where u been?? If we on this case and gm just agree with u so its a sadly game rules, changing system cuz some1 one better then u on gears. I just got ur point already do wootever u want anyway im out atm so nevermind [/quote]

[quote="WAGAWAGA"]And for everyone eho gona said not something about my hard job yess!! I was the first one who hunted old magma with 2 healers and everyone just lunch on me just to clear it out.[/quote]

[quote="YAREYAREDAZE"]Don't want to get distracted from main topic waga, can you re-read what I posted about how dex gear is useless if everyone wears it. (and thats why [b]you need to wear it[/b], to counter other peooples) And it turns dsoma into an arms race for the biggest dex set. That was my main point, I was just trying to show an example by saying if you have a very very good dex set, it might give you too much DEFENSE and OFFENSIVE power. RDT = offense ACC = offense POD = offense DT = offense + defense..... so why would you use anything other than DT? But, this is a side topic, main issue is still the CON problem[/quote]

[quote="DEIMOS"]Stick everyone in the arena and actually stand and fight watch what happens, (I am intrigued to see the results) tyro is probably quite right with people running archers always capitalise but I think this is only exaggerating the issue, Other day I was only one of many to stand and fight and I rinsed through pots in half the time of anyone else, granted I didn’t die but going through 300 pots in about 5 minutes is ridiculous, and that was in a reasonable defence set (ignoring access obviously as isn’t really any of note YET) I would also like to see how it plays out when auras are working properly Everyone focusing on axe atm but spear can’t even benefit from a shield which is an extra 20 def missing[/quote]