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IPHIOS |
Yeah I get that but what I don't get is - humans don't win week in week out. If they did there is an issue but it generally changes hand every couple of weeks.
Who would decide what damage is acceptable? A system where the map is rotated between race regularly always suggested a balance has been struck to me. Does melee do much dmg? Ma reduction(at wotw) may help rather than % adjusting?
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[quote="IPHIOS"]Yeah I get that but what I don't get is - humans don't win week in week out. If they did there is an issue but it generally changes hand every couple of weeks.
Who would decide what damage is acceptable? A system where the map is rotated between race regularly always suggested a balance has been struck to me.
Does melee do much dmg? Ma reduction(at wotw) may help rather than % adjusting?[/quote]
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#46 2014/03/04 15:51:14 |
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NITROSTEALTH |
"CHAKRA""NIBIRU" Done.
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[quote="NITROSTEALTH"][quote="CHAKRA"][quote="NIBIRU"]
Well you posted, so that shows its stirred you up emotionally to the extent of posting about it, and if you are bored of it the shut the fuck up and post about something on topic next time.
[/quote]
Well done on keeping it on topic.
oh and another EQ favorite - Post on your main you nub!
[/quote]
Done.[/quote]
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#47 2014/03/04 15:54:45 |
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HEISENBERG |
"CHAKRA""NIBIRU" Well you posted, so that shows its stirred you up emotionally to the extent of posting about it, and if you are bored of it the shut the fuck up and post about something on topic next time.Well done on keeping it on topic. When EQ can take some of their own advice maybe people will take their points seriously and stop flaming them. oh and another EQ favorite - Post on your main you nub! still cant believe JSA pays for the likes of this. Post on your main? thats a bit rich coming off some one posting off a nub account......... Chump..
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[quote="HEISENBERG"][quote="CHAKRA"][quote="NIBIRU"] Well you posted, so that shows its stirred you up emotionally to the extent of posting about it, and if you are bored of it the shut the fuck up and post about something on topic next time. [/quote] Well done on keeping it on topic. When EQ can take some of their own advice maybe people will take their points seriously and stop flaming them. oh and another EQ favorite - Post on your main you nub! still cant believe JSA pays for the likes of this. [/quote]
Post on your main? thats a bit rich coming off some one posting off a nub account......... Chump..[/quote]
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#48 2014/03/04 15:57:16 |
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CHAKRA |
"HEISENBERG""CHAKRA""NIBIRU" Well you posted, so that shows its stirred you up emotionally to the extent of posting about it, and if you are bored of it the shut the fuck up and post about something on topic next time.Well done on keeping it on topic. When EQ can take some of their own advice maybe people will take their points seriously and stop flaming them. oh and another EQ favourite - Post on your main you nub! still cant believe JSA pays for the likes of this. Hence why I said another EQ favourite, dont worry Heisen you and Nitro can have a moment later <3
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[quote="CHAKRA"][quote="HEISENBERG"][quote="CHAKRA"][quote="NIBIRU"] Well you posted, so that shows its stirred you up emotionally to the extent of posting about it, and if you are bored of it the shut the fuck up and post about something on topic next time. [/quote] Well done on keeping it on topic. When EQ can take some of their own advice maybe people will take their points seriously and stop flaming them. oh and another EQ favourite - Post on your main you nub! still cant believe JSA pays for the likes of this. [/quote]
Post on your main? thats a bit rich coming off some one posting off a nub account......... Chump..[/quote]
Hence why I said another EQ favourite, dont worry Heisen you and Nitro can have a moment later <3
[/quote]
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#49 2014/03/04 16:59:20 |
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NITROSTEALTH |
"CHAKRA""HEISENBERG""CHAKRA""NIBIRU" Well you posted, so that shows its stirred you up emotionally to the extent of posting about it, and if you are bored of it the shut the fuck up and post about something on topic next time.Well done on keeping it on topic. When EQ can take some of their own advice maybe people will take their points seriously and stop flaming them. oh and another EQ favourite - Post on your main you nub! still cant believe JSA pays for the likes of this. Lol np kid jog on ya wee poof stay anon
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[quote="NITROSTEALTH"][quote="CHAKRA"][quote="HEISENBERG"][quote="CHAKRA"][quote="NIBIRU"] Well you posted, so that shows its stirred you up emotionally to the extent of posting about it, and if you are bored of it the shut the fuck up and post about something on topic next time. [/quote] Well done on keeping it on topic. When EQ can take some of their own advice maybe people will take their points seriously and stop flaming them. oh and another EQ favourite - Post on your main you nub! still cant believe JSA pays for the likes of this. [/quote]
Post on your main? thats a bit rich coming off some one posting off a nub account......... Chump..[/quote]
Hence why I said another EQ favourite, dont worry Heisen you and Nitro can have a moment later <3
[/quote]
Lol np kid jog on ya wee poof stay anon[/quote]
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#50 2014/03/04 17:08:30 |
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999 |
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#51 2014/03/04 17:58:10 |
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SVANHILD |
"IPHIOS"Yeah I get that but what I don't get is - humans don't win week in week out. If they did there is an issue but it generally changes hand every couple of weeks. Well theoretically this is correct but humans don't seem to bother to turn up in the same numbers once they've won a few times. Sitting in safe zone hoping to run out and gank someone doesn't count as attending (not to say it is'nt a good laugh, i have a great time at SZ) - it's being in the throne room to actually affect the outcome. "IPHIOS"Does melee do much dmg? Oh yes.
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[quote="SVANHILD"][quote="IPHIOS"]Yeah I get that but what I don't get is - humans don't win week in week out. If they did there is an issue but it generally changes hand every couple of weeks.
Who would decide what damage is acceptable? A system where the map is rotated between race regularly always suggested a balance has been struck to me.[/quote]
Well theoretically this is correct but humans don't seem to bother to turn up in the same numbers once they've won a few times. Sitting in safe zone hoping to run out and gank someone doesn't count as attending (not to say it is'nt a good laugh, i have a great time at SZ) - it's being in the throne room to actually affect the outcome.
[quote="IPHIOS"]Does melee do much dmg? [/quote]
Oh yes.
[/quote]
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#52 2014/03/04 18:45:14 |
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OPENTHEDOOR |
There is a few problems I can see from a human side.
Firstly there is none of the high end int mobs on conti. Most of hsoma are being mages or at least concentrating on that. Secondly we are after a balance between upgrade items and weapons/armour. So we need to hunt all maps, so most of the Melee characters are happy with 1 or two week rotations. I think scrapping pos for 5th aura, and going back to the test system with sacred auras, and only having them for conti mobs would do more for WoW. Gives a big incentive. Maybe add rested xp potions for conti mobs, or a "conti present system" like the Xmas event for conti mobs. Just my 0.2
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[quote="OPENTHEDOOR"]There is a few problems I can see from a human side.
Firstly there is none of the high end int mobs on conti. Most of hsoma are being mages or at least concentrating on that.
Secondly we are after a balance between upgrade items and weapons/armour. So we need to hunt all maps, so most of the Melee characters are happy with 1 or two week rotations.
I think scrapping pos for 5th aura, and going back to the test system with sacred auras, and only having them for conti mobs would do more for WoW. Gives a big incentive.
Maybe add rested xp potions for conti mobs, or a "conti present system" like the Xmas event for conti mobs.
Just my 0.2[/quote]
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#53 2014/03/04 19:08:20 |
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CARNAGE |
"OPENTHEDOOR"There is a few problems I can see from a human side. That's a problem for both sides just in reverse, there are no high level melee mobs for devils on conti just mages.
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[quote="CARNAGE"][quote="OPENTHEDOOR"]There is a few problems I can see from a human side.
Firstly there is none of the high end int mobs on conti. Most of hsoma are being mages or at least concentrating on that.[/quote]
That's a problem for both sides just in reverse, there are no high level melee mobs for devils on conti just mages.
[/quote]
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#54 2014/03/04 19:17:21 |
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S0RCERER |
"IPHIOS"Yeah I get that but what I don't get is - humans don't win week in week out. If they did there is an issue but it generally changes hand every couple of weeks. If the rotation is coming about regularly because the war's genuine outcome is balanced (i.e. full attendance of both races) then we agree. However if the outcome of the war rests solely on whether humans can be bothered to turn up or not, that isn't right. If anything, the lack of attendance for humans should mean that they damn well lose, every single time. If you don't want to fight for it, why should the % be adjusting in your favour simply because you can't be bothered? When you attend, you absolutely smash us (on current %) which shows, clear as day, that when attendances are high on both sides, devils stand not a hope in hell (mind the pun) of winning. I always read the non-argument of "Oh devils won many weeks in a row at the start of the server" well the % system worked different back then and early levels for devils, as is agreed by most, are much quicker than that on Hsoma - however divine intervention in the way of iSylver reducing devil's % occurred when the new % system was introduced. The level of % he set Dsoma to was based on the fact that humans simply weren't turning up. Now that the last couple of wars has shown that even without EQ, you guys can trample us, heaven forbid what it'd have been like if EQ were there in full force (that they usually are!). I just find it shocking that this subject is so taboo, yet simple math can deduce that irrespective of win/loss ratio, damage intake vs. damage output of either races is so out of whack and anything BUT balanced. Enough speculating nonsense, just get a devil of the same level to hit a human, do the same in reverse and that'll speak far louder than any jibber jabber we post on the forums. Add into that equation the ratio of devils vs humans and there's no need for an argument, the action required would be clear as day. I test the damage every single war and I can tell you that despite having more magic attack than Plum, he can kill people in 2 hits and I drop naked humans (seeing as most humans don't use robes) in as many as 6~10.
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[quote="S0RCERER"][quote="IPHIOS"]Yeah I get that but what I don't get is - humans don't win week in week out. If they did there is an issue but it generally changes hand every couple of weeks.
Who would decide what damage is acceptable? A system where the map is rotated between race regularly always suggested a balance has been struck to me.
Does melee do much dmg? Ma reduction(at wotw) may help rather than % adjusting?[/quote]
If the rotation is coming about regularly because the war's genuine outcome is balanced (i.e. full attendance of both races) then we agree.
However if the outcome of the war rests solely on whether humans can be bothered to turn up or not, that isn't right.
If anything, the lack of attendance for humans should mean that they damn well lose, every single time.
If you don't want to fight for it, why should the % be adjusting in your favour simply because you can't be bothered?
When you attend, you absolutely smash us (on current %) which shows, clear as day, that when attendances are high on both sides, devils stand not a hope in hell (mind the pun) of winning.
I always read the non-argument of "Oh devils won many weeks in a row at the start of the server" well the % system worked different back then and early levels for devils, as is agreed by most, are much quicker than that on Hsoma - however divine intervention in the way of iSylver reducing devil's % occurred when the new % system was introduced.
The level of % he set Dsoma to was based on the fact that humans simply weren't turning up.
Now that the last couple of wars has shown that even without EQ, you guys can trample us, heaven forbid what it'd have been like if EQ were there in full force (that they usually are!).
I just find it shocking that this subject is so taboo, yet simple math can deduce that irrespective of win/loss ratio, damage intake vs. damage output of either races is so out of whack and anything BUT balanced.
Enough speculating nonsense, just get a devil of the same level to hit a human, do the same in reverse and that'll speak far louder than any jibber jabber we post on the forums. Add into that equation the ratio of devils vs humans and there's no need for an argument, the action required would be clear as day.
I test the damage every single war and I can tell you that despite having more magic attack than Plum, he can kill people in 2 hits and I drop naked humans (seeing as most humans don't use robes) in as many as 6~10.[/quote]
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#55 2014/03/04 19:23:15 |
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OPENTHEDOOR |
Sorc, you won't find many players saying the % at the moment is fair.
But you need to address the real problem. And that is turnout. Until people have to win it to get benefits, this problem will stay in place. Just another idea, but maybe an extra 20% rested increase while in castle area for players who attend the war.
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[quote="OPENTHEDOOR"]Sorc, you won't find many players saying the % at the moment is fair.
But you need to address the real problem. And that is turnout.
Until people have to win it to get benefits, this problem will stay in place.
Just another idea, but maybe an extra 20% rested increase while in castle area for players who attend the war. [/quote]
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#56 2014/03/04 19:30:33 |
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NAIKOFIG |
i havent posted in months came back to see this lol i had been saying this back when it was pointless for lvl 60 devs or lower to show up and it was killing dsoma got called a pessimistic by sylver guess i was right afterall.
you want conti to be intresting put endgame mobs there and make em drop something usefull(maybe even up % rate for owning conti) and make the % fair and if humans cant be bothered bad luck for them no point in making dsoma suffer. but its to late for that now should have been done when you had a community left. still make me lol when 187 at 85+ barely got kills on ppl in banded
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[quote="NAIKOFIG"]i havent posted in months came back to see this lol i had been saying this back when it was pointless for lvl 60 devs or lower to show up and it was killing dsoma got called a pessimistic by sylver guess i was right afterall.
you want conti to be intresting put endgame mobs there and make em drop something usefull(maybe even up % rate for owning conti) and make the % fair and if humans cant be bothered bad luck for them no point in making dsoma suffer. but its to late for that now should have been done when you had a community left.
still make me lol when 187 at 85+ barely got kills on ppl in banded [/quote]
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#57 2014/03/04 19:31:04 |
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ISYLVER [Staff] |
Naikofig do me a favour, if your not playing then stay gone. The fact you'd rather hang around here posting speaks volumes about you.
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#58 2014/03/04 20:38:47 |
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TOLIC |
I would love to see a lot more added to conti to benefit everyone, as atm even tho I show up to every war I'm sort of half arsed when It comes to the throne room at the end, as I don't care if we win or lose as conti has nothing for me anymore as I'm on endgame mobs.
Would be good to see more mobs endgame wise like blg/nightmares with maybe better loot and stat gains. I know soul bosses have been added to spice it up but with everyone knowing all the boss timers it just becomes silly to compete for it. If it's increased rested gains or unique loot or better stat gains then people will want to spend a week on this map as for a lot of people atm it's worthless. Hope gms find the time to suggest or implement things to want both races to defend those 3 stones!
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[quote="TOLIC"]I would love to see a lot more added to conti to benefit everyone, as atm even tho I show up to every war I'm sort of half arsed when It comes to the throne room at the end, as I don't care if we win or lose as conti has nothing for me anymore as I'm on endgame mobs.
Would be good to see more mobs endgame wise like blg/nightmares with maybe better loot and stat gains.
I know soul bosses have been added to spice it up but with everyone knowing all the boss timers it just becomes silly to compete for it.
If it's increased rested gains or unique loot or better stat gains then people will want to spend a week on this map as for a lot of people atm it's worthless.
Hope gms find the time to suggest or implement things to want both races to defend those 3 stones! [/quote]
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#59 2014/03/04 21:53:56 |
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JARAGOONDOO |
There's a lot of subjective opinions being flung around this thread, so I'm going to try staying as objective as possible, but even I may have a hint of bias here and there (I'll try not to, though!).
The % system as it currently is, is fine. It was implemented to allow Conti Map to change hands more frequently and evenly. I don't know the numbers, but I'd bet Win/Loss between both races has been pretty even since the current % system has been implemented. It's better than the old system, and anyone who disagrees is deluded. But there is a definitely a problem with balance; in particular the damage disparity between both races. This is due to the humans not turning up with sufficient numbers every war, and even in some cases % manipulation (humans letting devils win). Let's forget about the % manipulation for now and try to talk about about the long reoccuring issue of humans not turning up in sufficient numbers. Is it incentive? I honestly don't know exactly what humans get from having Conti, but here is what Devils get: - A few low level monsters with better loot than their non-conti counter parts - Several monsters to hunt between Tarkili Paladin (110 STR) and Gargoyle Fighters (138 STR). Basically level ranges 40 to 65 (average of most classes). All these monsters have great loot: Barr, Special Gems (SGs) and top-end Weapons ( got my Intense Knux from Conti Giant Lizardmen ;) ). Not only this, but hunting these monsters (especially Evolved Beasts) is to most efficient way to train in this level bracket - Kharil Lizard with better loot than IC counter part (more SGs and Weapons), good till 130 STR (level 75 average) - Drazil Druid (although they are bad gains for DSoma mages, I'm not sure they count) are the top-end int mob That's all the benefits I can think of the Devils get from Conti. So we can see (for physical classes) that Conti is the BEST hunting ground for devils from level 40 to 75, where they will get the best gains, the shortest amount of time hunting for levels, lots of special gems (for crafting and barr) and all the top-end weapons they will need. With all that in mind I come to the conclusion that Conti for Devils it's not a luxury, it's a neccessity. So with that said, do Humans have the same level of benefits Devils recieve from Conti? I don't really know what they get from Conti except spells and monsters with stupidly high defensive dex (so you level slow) that drop NON-top-end weapons (LB). You need to make the level of benefits the same so that it becomes a neccissity to own Conti for Humans. Even then... would Humans turn up if they are given these incentives? I don't know. But it'll be a step in the right direction.
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[quote="JARAGOONDOO"]There's a lot of subjective opinions being flung around this thread, so I'm going to try staying as objective as possible, but even I may have a hint of bias here and there (I'll try not to, though!).
The % system as it currently is, is fine. It was implemented to allow Conti Map to change hands more frequently and evenly. I don't know the numbers, but I'd bet Win/Loss between both races has been pretty even since the current % system has been implemented. It's better than the old system, and anyone who disagrees is deluded.
But there is a definitely a problem with balance; in particular the damage disparity between both races. This is due to the humans not turning up with sufficient numbers every war, and even in some cases % manipulation (humans letting devils win).
Let's forget about the % manipulation for now and try to talk about about the long reoccuring issue of humans not turning up in sufficient numbers. Is it incentive? I honestly don't know exactly what humans get from having Conti, but here is what Devils get:
- A few low level monsters with better loot than their non-conti counter parts
- Several monsters to hunt between Tarkili Paladin (110 STR) and Gargoyle Fighters (138 STR). Basically level ranges 40 to 65 (average of most classes). All these monsters have great loot: Barr, Special Gems (SGs) and top-end Weapons ( got my Intense Knux from Conti Giant Lizardmen ;) ). Not only this, but hunting these monsters (especially Evolved Beasts) is to most efficient way to train in this level bracket
- Kharil Lizard with better loot than IC counter part (more SGs and Weapons), good till 130 STR (level 75 average)
- Drazil Druid (although they are bad gains for DSoma mages, I'm not sure they count) are the top-end int mob
That's all the benefits I can think of the Devils get from Conti. So we can see (for physical classes) that Conti is the BEST hunting ground for devils from level 40 to 75, where they will get the best gains, the shortest amount of time hunting for levels, lots of special gems (for crafting and barr) and all the top-end weapons they will need. With all that in mind I come to the conclusion that Conti for Devils it's not a luxury, it's a neccessity.
So with that said, do Humans have the same level of benefits Devils recieve from Conti? I don't really know what they get from Conti except spells and monsters with stupidly high defensive dex (so you level slow) that drop NON-top-end weapons (LB). You need to make the level of benefits the same so that it becomes a neccissity to own Conti for Humans.
Even then... would Humans turn up if they are given these incentives? I don't know. But it'll be a step in the right direction.[/quote]
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#60 2014/03/04 22:10:42 |
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