| Author | Content | Date |
|---|---|---|
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FREQUENCY |
Good idea to gain rested in freemode. However i do feel the rates are a bit too fast. Nearly hit 110 in under 3 weeks, granted i have had a lot of spare time :p
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#16 2020/05/01 09:48:17 |
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FOXTRCK |
The biggest regret of the ex CEO of Blizzard for Warcraft was making the game "more accessible", that is things like raid finder, PUGS etc. It no longer forced people to "socialise" or making Guilds important. Even cross servers had some serious downfalls. There was a general metling of community as a general thing on a server.
So with those changes, it brought elbow flincing reactions of other gamer types, not just other MMORPGS games but actually widened their audiance to reign other people - and try and shape it that way as well because they wanted "more" despite having significant market share - that brings with it the attitude of everything is now expected to be served on a plate and everything's easy-ish. They lost a lot and continue to. Dungeons became 10 minute cakewalks rather than 50 minutes of careful pulls and expected wipes. Next thing you know PUG dungeons groups are vote kicking people out for anything at all, even for going afk for 10 seconds. Things that have really marred the game and changed its community for the worse. I think Blizzard forgot they set the bar for online communities in gaming and it still was one of the top out there for many many years. But at some juncture, they felt gaming had changed, and to a point it had, it was no longer reclusive or the total escape it had been in 2000-2005 and was becoming way more mainstream. That wasn't a problem really but it was eroding precious communities away into nothing and replaced with banter filled groups and parties the likes you see in none MMORPGS because now gaming had become THE social place. (I think there's a meme out there that says in the 2000s the Internet was our ESCAPE, now real life is our ESCAPE? :p). That's the path we're on but worse than Warcraft, we're on maybe 30x of ESoma or something now and yet we've not added much content whilst completely ignoring the original game without even replacing it because it wasn't easy. We now have maybe 5 tiers of weapons and armors completely ignored and uneeded because of the rates. I think GM's need to put their vision out there (though last I knew, a couple of bigger things are cooking). Something we've tried to help engineer but lead by the VT team more than anyone else.
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[quote="FOXTRCK"]The biggest regret of the ex CEO of Blizzard for Warcraft was making the game "more accessible", that is things like raid finder, PUGS etc. It no longer forced people to "socialise" or making Guilds important. Even cross servers had some serious downfalls. There was a general metling of community as a general thing on a server.
So with those changes, it brought elbow flincing reactions of other gamer types, not just other MMORPGS games but actually widened their audiance to reign other people - and try and shape it that way as well because they wanted "more" despite having significant market share - that brings with it the attitude of everything is now expected to be served on a plate and everything's easy-ish. They lost a lot and continue to.
Dungeons became 10 minute cakewalks rather than 50 minutes of careful pulls and expected wipes.
Next thing you know PUG dungeons groups are vote kicking people out for anything at all, even for going afk for 10 seconds.
Things that have really marred the game and changed its community for the worse. I think Blizzard forgot they set the bar for online communities in gaming and it still was one of the top out there for many many years. But at some juncture, they felt gaming had changed, and to a point it had, it was no longer reclusive or the total escape it had been in 2000-2005 and was becoming way more mainstream. That wasn't a problem really but it was eroding precious communities away into nothing and replaced with banter filled groups and parties the likes you see in none MMORPGS because now gaming had become THE social place.
(I think there's a meme out there that says in the 2000s the Internet was our ESCAPE, now real life is our ESCAPE? :p).
That's the path we're on but worse than Warcraft, we're on maybe 30x of ESoma or something now and yet we've not added much content whilst completely ignoring the original game without even replacing it because it wasn't easy. We now have maybe 5 tiers of weapons and armors completely ignored and uneeded because of the rates.
I think GM's need to put their vision out there (though last I knew, a couple of bigger things are cooking). Something we've tried to help engineer but lead by the VT team more than anyone else.
[/quote]
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#17 2020/05/01 11:10:24 |
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DEVONNE |
"CHOJINE"The problem Devonne is most people won’t play at original rates. People’s lives are too busy to dedicate 3000+ hours in to capping a character. Only the truly addicted stay at those rates, the majority move on. You have to play 3000+ hours to "cap" this game. If the game is a good at the cap it would be good at soft levelling caps and all the haranguing to suggest otherwise makes me think some of you don't even believe what you are saying. "ALBION" Just not true. Rage quitting over losing items at anvil comes about because the only separation between players at the cap comes through the Anvil and increasing rates only increases how many players that applies to. High rates forces people to take on other tasks they wouldn't otherwise, like healing to 100 int or crafting to 200 skill and that leads to the same sense of annoyance and doesn't alleviate that problem of people finding the game too slow. The same can be said when it comes to farming, all increasing Egg Pile drop rates did to the point they drop like confetti was make people think about making +8 SS items and the same would be true for every other upgrade. Burnout from playing too much is more likely if people think the cap is some kind panacea, it's also more likely if people don't have a defined goal to aim for, if the time they need to spend to reach a goal is defined by the Anvil and if they can't see any visible differences between the players.
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[quote="DEVONNE"][quote="CHOJINE"]The problem Devonne is most people won’t play at original rates. People’s lives are too busy to dedicate 3000+ hours in to capping a character. Only the truly addicted stay at those rates, the majority move on.[/quote]
You have to play 3000+ hours to "cap" this game.
If the game is a good at the cap it would be good at soft levelling caps and all the haranguing to suggest otherwise makes me think some of you don't even believe what you are saying.
[quote="ALBION"]
Top 5 reasons I see people stop playing soma:
1. Real life gets in the way
2. Burnout from playing too much
3. Rage quitting over losing items at anvil
4. Another game takes up their time
5. Rates too slow to make it fun
None of those issues are created by levelling being too fast.
[/quote]
Just not true.
Rage quitting over losing items at anvil comes about because the only separation between players at the cap comes through the Anvil and increasing rates only increases how many players that applies to.
High rates forces people to take on other tasks they wouldn't otherwise, like healing to 100 int or crafting to 200 skill and that leads to the same sense of annoyance and doesn't alleviate that problem of people finding the game too slow.
The same can be said when it comes to farming, all increasing Egg Pile drop rates did to the point they drop like confetti was make people think about making +8 SS items and the same would be true for every other upgrade.
Burnout from playing too much is more likely if people think the cap is some kind panacea, it's also more likely if people don't have a defined goal to aim for, if the time they need to spend to reach a goal is defined by the Anvil and if they can't see any visible differences between the players.[/quote]
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#18 2020/05/01 11:12:12 |
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DEVONNE |
"FOXTRCK" With rested it's 4-5 hits per .1 from 20-70 skill on these rates. You blast through most of the ESoma part of the game in no time at all.
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[quote="DEVONNE"][quote="FOXTRCK"]
Thats the path we're on but worse than Warcraft, we're on maybe 30x of ESoma or something now and yet we've not added much content and we've left original, one time used weapons and armors behind and expect people to remain content.
[/quote]
With rested it's 4-5 hits per .1 from 20-70 skill on these rates. You blast through most of the ESoma part of the game in no time at all.[/quote]
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#19 2020/05/01 11:14:48 |
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ALBION |
"FREQUENCY"Good idea to gain rested in freemode. However i do feel the rates are a bit too fast. Nearly hit 110 in under 3 weeks, granted i have had a lot of spare time :p How many hours is that? I play pretty casual and I've played 568 hours in nearly 3 years. Doesn't seem like a lot but it's still 1.5+ hours per day. I'm still about 50 levelling hours off capping with these rates and that's with a 400 recoil knuck. I'm easily 200 hours off being remotely competitive in PVP after farming for gear. Obviously most levelling was done pre event and pre rates increase but even so, it's still 400 hours to get a half decent char at current rates. Over an hour per day, every day, for a whole year. I think that's still tough enough.
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[quote="ALBION"][quote="FREQUENCY"]Good idea to gain rested in freemode. However i do feel the rates are a bit too fast. Nearly hit 110 in under 3 weeks, granted i have had a lot of spare time :p[/quote]
How many hours is that? I play pretty casual and I've played 568 hours in nearly 3 years. Doesn't seem like a lot but it's still 1.5+ hours per day. I'm still about 50 levelling hours off capping with these rates and that's with a 400 recoil knuck. I'm easily 200 hours off being remotely competitive in PVP after farming for gear.
Obviously most levelling was done pre event and pre rates increase but even so, it's still 400 hours to get a half decent char at current rates. Over an hour per day, every day, for a whole year. I think that's still tough enough.
[/quote]
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#20 2020/05/01 11:17:10 |
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ALBION |
"DEVONNE""CHOJINE"The problem Devonne is most people won’t play at original rates. People’s lives are too busy to dedicate 3000+ hours in to capping a character. Only the truly addicted stay at those rates, the majority move on. For me, burnout happens mainly after ploughing 100 hours in to blg and realising I still got 2 hit by capped players. Or other happened due to getting to 151 str and realising I'd have to skill axe up with no rested just so I'd screw my char up. Or from trying to farm a certain items for days to no avail. I agree that the levelling curve should be flatter. I wish I could spend more time at lower level mobs and less time at hoarde onwards but let's be honest, unless there's a huge patch to address it, it isn't going to happen. A bigger issue is the speed of levelling from blg onwards just feels so grindy as you're at the same mob for ages. Making farming for items doesn't discourage anyone from playing. It may move the bar higher for more hardcore players so they aim for that +8 wep but it also gives a better sense of satisfaction to those of us with less time. I've enjoyed the game so much more knowing I can hunt for a few days, get some eps/tabs/armour/wep and make a nice +2 item. It makes me want to come back and do it again, even taking the occasional +3 risk or trying out a different build. I'd much rather people left due to getting bored of doing everything rather than because they never had the time to get where they wanted to. At least they would still log on for gvw / wow / events. I know at least 4/5 people who don't play as they never had the proper time to invest in soma to get the best out of it.
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[quote="ALBION"][quote="DEVONNE"][quote="CHOJINE"]The problem Devonne is most people won’t play at original rates. People’s lives are too busy to dedicate 3000+ hours in to capping a character. Only the truly addicted stay at those rates, the majority move on.[/quote]
You have to play 3000+ hours to "cap" this game.
If the game is a good at the cap it would be good at soft levelling caps and all the haranguing to suggest otherwise makes me think some of you don't even believe what you are saying.
[quote="ALBION"]
Top 5 reasons I see people stop playing soma:
1. Real life gets in the way
2. Burnout from playing too much
3. Rage quitting over losing items at anvil
4. Another game takes up their time
5. Rates too slow to make it fun
None of those issues are created by levelling being too fast.
[/quote]
Just not true.
Rage quitting over losing items at anvil comes about because the only separation between players at the cap comes through the Anvil and increasing rates only increases how many players that applies to.
High rates forces people to take on other tasks they wouldn't otherwise, like healing to 100 int or crafting to 200 skill and that leads to the same sense of annoyance and doesn't alleviate that problem of people finding the game too slow.
The same can be said when it comes to farming, all increasing Egg Pile drop rates did to the point they drop like confetti was make people think about making +8 SS items and the same would be true for every other upgrade.
Burnout from playing too much is more likely if people think the cap is some kind panacea, it's also more likely if people don't have a defined goal to aim for, if the time they need to spend to reach a goal is defined by the Anvil and if they can't see any visible differences between the players.[/quote]
For me, burnout happens mainly after ploughing 100 hours in to blg and realising I still got 2 hit by capped players. Or other happened due to getting to 151 str and realising I'd have to skill axe up with no rested just so I'd screw my char up. Or from trying to farm a certain items for days to no avail.
I agree that the levelling curve should be flatter. I wish I could spend more time at lower level mobs and less time at hoarde onwards but let's be honest, unless there's a huge patch to address it, it isn't going to happen. A bigger issue is the speed of levelling from blg onwards just feels so grindy as you're at the same mob for ages.
Making farming for items doesn't discourage anyone from playing. It may move the bar higher for more hardcore players so they aim for that +8 wep but it also gives a better sense of satisfaction to those of us with less time.
I've enjoyed the game so much more knowing I can hunt for a few days, get some eps/tabs/armour/wep and make a nice +2 item. It makes me want to come back and do it again, even taking the occasional +3 risk or trying out a different build.
I'd much rather people left due to getting bored of doing everything rather than because they never had the time to get where they wanted to. At least they would still log on for gvw / wow / events. I know at least 4/5 people who don't play as they never had the proper time to invest in soma to get the best out of it.
[/quote]
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#21 2020/05/01 11:33:18 |
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FOXTRCK |
"ALBION""DEVONNE""CHOJINE"The problem Devonne is most people won’t play at original rates. People’s lives are too busy to dedicate 3000+ hours in to capping a character. Only the truly addicted stay at those rates, the majority move on. IMO you and Devonne are actually both right in some respects. Repeated blanket % rate increases were bad. Yes. Selective % increases would have been better. Having more items drop (to some degree compared to Esoma). Yes Letting people do more upgrading. Yes I think if you did a survey on "where" people quit, it'll be at BLG and on wards and WBM and on wards. Singular track, no new places to particularly explore, no real new armors/weapons to get. No alternative mobs (although Dsoma do have other options at this point). Alright you're starting to get items to upgrade with but... meh. It all kind of goes shitty and unplanned from there. There's little been done to make it not a 1 weapon game until level 100 and dex incline of mobs reinforce that (let alone the bigger picture of that same weapon class). There's a complete absence on chain quests or any sort of developing story, I know, who cares about RP right but its important to set a direction on the game that to many is much more than just a Pserver ^^. Should just boost this part of the game, take some old mobs out if they have too in Abias - and draw out the level 1-70 experience a bit so people are coerced to see the best parts of the game.
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[quote="FOXTRCK"][quote="ALBION"][quote="DEVONNE"][quote="CHOJINE"]The problem Devonne is most people won’t play at original rates. People’s lives are too busy to dedicate 3000+ hours in to capping a character. Only the truly addicted stay at those rates, the majority move on.[/quote]
You have to play 3000+ hours to "cap" this game.
If the game is a good at the cap it would be good at soft levelling caps and all the haranguing to suggest otherwise makes me think some of you don't even believe what you are saying.
[quote="ALBION"]
Top 5 reasons I see people stop playing soma:
1. Real life gets in the way
2. Burnout from playing too much
3. Rage quitting over losing items at anvil
4. Another game takes up their time
5. Rates too slow to make it fun
None of those issues are created by levelling being too fast.
[/quote]
Just not true.
Rage quitting over losing items at anvil comes about because the only separation between players at the cap comes through the Anvil and increasing rates only increases how many players that applies to.
High rates forces people to take on other tasks they wouldn't otherwise, like healing to 100 int or crafting to 200 skill and that leads to the same sense of annoyance and doesn't alleviate that problem of people finding the game too slow.
The same can be said when it comes to farming, all increasing Egg Pile drop rates did to the point they drop like confetti was make people think about making +8 SS items and the same would be true for every other upgrade.
Burnout from playing too much is more likely if people think the cap is some kind panacea, it's also more likely if people don't have a defined goal to aim for, if the time they need to spend to reach a goal is defined by the Anvil and if they can't see any visible differences between the players.[/quote]
For me, burnout happens mainly after ploughing 100 hours in to blg and realising I still got 2 hit by capped players. Or other happened due to getting to 151 str and realising I'd have to skill axe up with no rested just so I'd screw my char up. Or from trying to farm a certain items for days to no avail.
I agree that the levelling curve should be flatter. I wish I could spend more time at lower level mobs and less time at hoarde onwards but let's be honest, unless there's a huge patch to address it, it isn't going to happen. A bigger issue is the speed of levelling from blg onwards just feels so grindy as you're at the same mob for ages.
Making farming for items doesn't discourage anyone from playing. It may move the bar higher for more hardcore players so they aim for that +8 wep but it also gives a better sense of satisfaction to those of us with less time.
I've enjoyed the game so much more knowing I can hunt for a few days, get some eps/tabs/armour/wep and make a nice +2 item. It makes me want to come back and do it again, even taking the occasional +3 risk or trying out a different build.
I'd much rather people left due to getting bored of doing everything rather than because they never had the time to get where they wanted to. At least they would still log on for gvw / wow / events. I know at least 4/5 people who don't play as they never had the proper time to invest in soma to get the best out of it.
[/quote]
IMO you and Devonne are actually both right in some respects.
Repeated blanket % rate increases were bad. Yes. Selective % increases would have been better.
Having more items drop (to some degree compared to Esoma). Yes
Letting people do more upgrading. Yes
I think if you did a survey on "where" people quit, it'll be at BLG and on wards and WBM and on wards. Singular track, no new places to particularly explore, no real new armors/weapons to get. No alternative mobs (although Dsoma do have other options at this point). Alright you're starting to get items to upgrade with but... meh. It all kind of goes shitty and unplanned from there. There's little been done to make it not a 1 weapon game until level 100 and dex incline of mobs reinforce that (let alone the bigger picture of that same weapon class). There's a complete absence on chain quests or any sort of developing story, I know, who cares about RP right but its important to set a direction on the game that to many is much more than just a Pserver ^^. Should just boost this part of the game, take some old mobs out if they have too in Abias - and draw out the level 1-70 experience a bit so people are coerced to see the best parts of the game.
[/quote]
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#22 2020/05/01 12:35:01 |
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DEVONNE |
"ALBION" Kind of a textbook example of why higher rates aren't a panacea, they sold you the idea that you were getting closer than you thought and the realisation that there are still the stark differences they've always been hit you harder as you learned the reality. It's better people understand their position in the Soma hierarchy through constant visual reinforcement than exist in a bubble where it doesn't exist until they have to engage with the reality.
You aren't capped so you still experience the game like it's a levelling game and the upgrade system to you is an optional side show as originally intended. There's no reason why the upgrade system can't be made more accessible to lower level players, hell they've taken some of the steps on this server even if they aren't remotely relevant, without destroying the levelling portion of the game for more committed players as this server has done. For capped players there is no alternative, they are forced to define their growth by their engagement with the upgrade system and the intermittent growth that comes about as a result of the Anvil pushes even the most committed player away over time.
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[quote="DEVONNE"][quote="ALBION"]
For me, burnout happens mainly after ploughing 100 hours in to blg and realising I still got 2 hit by capped players. Or other happened due to getting to 151 str and realising I'd have to skill axe up with no rested just so I'd screw my char up. Or from trying to farm a certain items for days to no avail.
[/quote]
Kind of a textbook example of why higher rates aren't a panacea, they sold you the idea that you were getting closer than you thought and the realisation that there are still the stark differences they've always been hit you harder as you learned the reality. It's better people understand their position in the Soma hierarchy through constant visual reinforcement than exist in a bubble where it doesn't exist until they have to engage with the reality.
[quote]
Making farming for items doesn't discourage anyone from playing. It may move the bar higher for more hardcore players so they aim for that +8 wep but it also gives a better sense of satisfaction to those of us with less time.
I've enjoyed the game so much more knowing I can hunt for a few days, get some eps/tabs/armour/wep and make a nice +2 item. It makes me want to come back and do it again, even taking the occasional +3 risk or trying out a different build.
[/quote]
You aren't capped so you still experience the game like it's a levelling game and the upgrade system to you is an optional side show as originally intended. There's no reason why the upgrade system can't be made more accessible to lower level players, hell they've taken some of the steps on this server even if they aren't remotely relevant, without destroying the levelling portion of the game for more committed players as this server has done.
For capped players there is no alternative, they are forced to define their growth by their engagement with the upgrade system and the intermittent growth that comes about as a result of the Anvil pushes even the most committed player away over time.[/quote]
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#23 2020/05/01 16:12:41 |
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ALBION |
"DEVONNE""ALBION" I don't know if this is serious or not. If it is, wtf? It's a game not some black mirror style punishment.
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[quote="ALBION"][quote="DEVONNE"][quote="ALBION"]
For me, burnout happens mainly after ploughing 100 hours in to blg and realising I still got 2 hit by capped players. Or other happened due to getting to 151 str and realising I'd have to skill axe up with no rested just so I'd screw my char up. Or from trying to farm a certain items for days to no avail.
[/quote]
Kind of a textbook example of why higher rates aren't a panacea, they sold you the idea that you were getting closer than you thought and the realisation that there are still the stark differences they've always been hit you harder as you learned the reality. It's better people understand their position in the Soma hierarchy through constant visual reinforcement than exist in a bubble where it doesn't exist until they have to engage with the reality.
[quote]
Making farming for items doesn't discourage anyone from playing. It may move the bar higher for more hardcore players so they aim for that +8 wep but it also gives a better sense of satisfaction to those of us with less time.
I've enjoyed the game so much more knowing I can hunt for a few days, get some eps/tabs/armour/wep and make a nice +2 item. It makes me want to come back and do it again, even taking the occasional +3 risk or trying out a different build.
[/quote]
You aren't capped so you still experience the game like it's a levelling game and the upgrade system to you is an optional side show as originally intended. There's no reason why the upgrade system can't be made more accessible to lower level players, hell they've taken some of the steps on this server even if they aren't remotely relevant, without destroying the levelling portion of the game for more committed players as this server has done.
For capped players there is no alternative, they are forced to define their growth by their engagement with the upgrade system and the intermittent growth that comes about as a result of the Anvil pushes even the most committed player away over time.[/quote]
I don't know if this is serious or not. If it is, wtf? It's a game not some black mirror style punishment.
[/quote]
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#24 2020/05/01 16:43:42 |
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CHOJINE |
Devonne, of course I believe what I say. The reality is many people move on from soma over time as it is a huge time sink with little reward. Many players try out other games like FF14 WoW BDO etc and find that they receive much more satisfaction per hour spent in game. If people honestly think a large community will gravitate towards very slow rates in today’s gaming climate I will show you to the nearest mirror so you can first hand see insanity.
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[quote="CHOJINE"]Devonne, of course I believe what I say. The reality is many people move on from soma over time as it is a huge time sink with little reward. Many players try out other games like FF14 WoW BDO etc and find that they receive much more satisfaction per hour spent in game. If people honestly think a large community will gravitate towards very slow rates in today’s gaming climate I will show you to the nearest mirror so you can first hand see insanity.[/quote]
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#25 2020/05/01 19:25:22 |
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SUBXERO |
Chojine hit that nail
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#26 2020/05/01 19:46:17 |
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REMASTERED |
The rates are pleasant to play for us that don't have much time to play and people who don't play to cap, just to spend 30 mins having some fun mindlessly PVEing.
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#27 2020/05/01 21:36:36 |
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KNUT |
900 hour for make char 30cons 100ont healing lvl cap.130 weap skill.70 armour.when char is cap u got matt for make gear to enter in game
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#28 2020/05/02 02:45:46 |
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CRAZYEYES |
CRAZYEYES Hours ingame (345) lvl 120 with 30 con and 130 craft doesnt take 3k hours to cap but could have top tier gear in that time lol, did from lvl 109 to 120 during event and it was most fun ive had lvling on soma.
I actually enjoyed lvling with no rested instead of waiting ages for enough to build up that could last a decent length of hunt. not sure ill be playing as much when it goes back to old rates but we shall see. Would be very nice keeping these rates permanently for leveling but putting drops back to normal as the amount of diamonds floating about ingame now is a bit absurd lol.
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[quote="CRAZYEYES"]CRAZYEYES Hours ingame (345) lvl 120 with 30 con and 130 craft doesnt take 3k hours to cap but could have top tier gear in that time lol, did from lvl 109 to 120 during event and it was most fun ive had lvling on soma.
I actually enjoyed lvling with no rested instead of waiting ages for enough to build up that could last a decent length of hunt. not sure ill be playing as much when it goes back to old rates but we shall see.
Would be very nice keeping these rates permanently for leveling but putting drops back to normal as the amount of diamonds floating about ingame now is a bit absurd lol.
[/quote]
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#29 2020/05/02 08:45:20 |
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SOMCHAI |
When fast rates become the norm, is it still fun? as the rates have been permanently raised serveral times, where does it stop ? why are level cap increases requested at all?
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#30 2020/05/02 08:56:04 |
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