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MITCHY |
One thing I don't quite understand is that you are taking away an awful awful lot of hours away from people who've struggled hunting +50 mobs the whole time. I could knock a level 100 devil (hunting quickest exp mobs with decent gear) in probably less than 400 hours?
Why should someone whose grafted 4-5 and maybe more have the same stats as someone who went the easy route. I do understand with allocating them as you please you'll get different builds but you'll never have that extra bonus stat gain advantage again. My devil is about level 60ish and I stopped levelling him once this patch and stat allocation was talked about...
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[quote="MITCHY"]One thing I don't quite understand is that you are taking away an awful awful lot of hours away from people who've struggled hunting +50 mobs the whole time. I could knock a level 100 devil (hunting quickest exp mobs with decent gear) in probably less than 400 hours?
Why should someone whose grafted 4-5 and maybe more have the same stats as someone who went the easy route.
I do understand with allocating them as you please you'll get different builds but you'll never have that extra bonus stat gain advantage again.
My devil is about level 60ish and I stopped levelling him once this patch and stat allocation was talked about...[/quote]
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#61 2017/09/01 09:17:19 |
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MUSASJI |
+1 Mitchy
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#62 2017/09/01 09:29:53 |
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MITCHY |
Also before people knock me for maoning / slating gm's im not, I'm just asking the question why.
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#63 2017/09/01 09:33:56 |
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GHOSTLORD |
The mob bonus is annoying and we don't like it. At all. This is one of the reasons the new dsoma mobs as well as the new hsoma mobs don't apply it. If we had a good way to remove it completely from the game, we would. But since wiping is not an option this won't happen. The problem here is we cannot recalculate people's stats due to the mob bonus as well as some other factors, unless we spend thousands of GM hours.
That being said, punching (especially for mages) is more powerful than we would have liked to see. There are some quick fixes for DSoma for the next 10 lvls. But anything beyond that will only lead to more problems. With the new system we can change things on the go without hurting previous or new players. Up to lvl 200 and beyond. When the lvl cap is introduced. Have we then ruined the time of all the humans who spent hours on hours farming upgrades and making better gear? I guess so. But that's the price of moving onwards. For the DSoma punchers amongst us, we never planned to 'ruin' their time. But this is an unfortunate side effect of the change. In reality games sometimes have to force these decisions regardless of hours spent / lost. I could even go as far as to argue that they already reaped the benefits because of the time they have had. I hope this answered your question.
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[quote="GHOSTLORD"]The mob bonus is annoying and we don't like it. At all. This is one of the reasons the new dsoma mobs as well as the new hsoma mobs don't apply it. If we had a good way to remove it completely from the game, we would. But since wiping is not an option this won't happen. The problem here is we cannot recalculate people's stats due to the mob bonus as well as some other factors, unless we spend thousands of GM hours.
That being said, punching (especially for mages) is more powerful than we would have liked to see. There are some quick fixes for DSoma for the next 10 lvls. But anything beyond that will only lead to more problems. With the new system we can change things on the go without hurting previous or new players. Up to lvl 200 and beyond.
When the lvl cap is introduced. Have we then ruined the time of all the humans who spent hours on hours farming upgrades and making better gear? I guess so. But that's the price of moving onwards.
For the DSoma punchers amongst us, we never planned to 'ruin' their time. But this is an unfortunate side effect of the change. In reality games sometimes have to force these decisions regardless of hours spent / lost. I could even go as far as to argue that they already reaped the benefits because of the time they have had.
I hope this answered your question.[/quote]
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#64 2017/09/01 10:54:28 |
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MITCHY |
It's answered it but doesn't quite cut the mustard for me.
Eventually on Hsoma you'll have chars at say level 200 regardless of what route they have hunted all on the same stats (ie a pure mage with dex will have identical stats regardless of bonus mobs or not) Soma was a game with many varying factors which all affected your character, what you are essentially doing is removing all factors to make it all identical. This in my eyes isn't what soma was all about nor is it fair for those people who've put in x amount of hours over for "perfect" chars. Because you don't like the bonuses doesn't mean to say they have to go, they have been in for the life of the server, it's too late not to simply get rid of them surely??
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[quote="MITCHY"]It's answered it but doesn't quite cut the mustard for me.
Eventually on Hsoma you'll have chars at say level 200 regardless of what route they have hunted all on the same stats (ie a pure mage with dex will have identical stats regardless of bonus mobs or not)
Soma was a game with many varying factors which all affected your character, what you are essentially doing is removing all factors to make it all identical. This in my eyes isn't what soma was all about nor is it fair for those people who've put in x amount of hours over for "perfect" chars.
Because you don't like the bonuses doesn't mean to say they have to go, they have been in for the life of the server, it's too late not to simply get rid of them surely??[/quote]
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#65 2017/09/01 11:12:28 |
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MUSASJI |
"MITCHY"It's answered it but doesn't quite cut the mustard for me. Gotta say I agree on everything here. Although I give up trying to argue against it, clearly its coming and that's that.
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[quote="MUSASJI"][quote="MITCHY"]It's answered it but doesn't quite cut the mustard for me.
Eventually on Hsoma you'll have chars at say level 200 regardless of what route they have hunted all on the same stats (ie a pure mage with dex will have identical stats regardless of bonus mobs or not)
Soma was a game with many varying factors which all affected your character, what you are essentially doing is removing all factors to make it all identical. This in my eyes isn't what soma was all about nor is it fair for those people who've put in x amount of hours over for "perfect" chars.
Because you don't like the bonuses doesn't mean to say they have to go, they have been in for the life of the server, it's too late not to simply get rid of them surely??[/quote]
Gotta say I agree on everything here. Although I give up trying to argue against it, clearly its coming and that's that.[/quote]
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#66 2017/09/01 11:24:47 |
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GHOSTLORD |
"MITCHY"It's answered it but doesn't quite cut the mustard for me. This is why HSoma won't be changed. In Hsoma you aren't able to cap both int / str or dex. In the way we currently work we won't be changing this. So this means the difference between HSoma characters will be based upon the choices they have made, namely which stat they take as their main stat.
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[quote="GHOSTLORD"][quote="MITCHY"]It's answered it but doesn't quite cut the mustard for me.
Eventually on Hsoma you'll have chars at say level 200 regardless of what route they have hunted all on the same stats (ie a pure mage with dex will have identical stats regardless of bonus mobs or not)
Soma was a game with many varying factors which all affected your character, what you are essentially doing is removing all factors to make it all identical. This in my eyes isn't what soma was all about nor is it fair for those people who've put in x amount of hours over for "perfect" chars.
Because you don't like the bonuses doesn't mean to say they have to go, they have been in for the life of the server, it's too late not to simply get rid of them surely??[/quote]
This is why HSoma won't be changed. In Hsoma you aren't able to cap both int / str or dex. In the way we currently work we won't be changing this. So this means the difference between HSoma characters will be based upon the choices they have made, namely which stat they take as their main stat.
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#67 2017/09/01 11:25:37 |
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MITCHY |
Ah, my bad. I've heard differently from someone who asked Isylver and he basically said that players would all end up with the same number of stats (at level 200 you'd have 500stats to allocate for example) instead of player A hunting 50+ having 550 and player B hunting 0 bonus mobs having 500.
That's where the confusion lies. If that isn't the case then I take back the Hsoma part of it. But still feel sorry for the dsoma 50+ hunters!
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[quote="MITCHY"]Ah, my bad. I've heard differently from someone who asked Isylver and he basically said that players would all end up with the same number of stats (at level 200 you'd have 500stats to allocate for example) instead of player A hunting 50+ having 550 and player B hunting 0 bonus mobs having 500.
That's where the confusion lies. If that isn't the case then I take back the Hsoma part of it. But still feel sorry for the dsoma 50+ hunters![/quote]
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#68 2017/09/01 11:35:36 |
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GHOSTLORD |
"MITCHY"Ah, my bad. I've heard differently from someone who asked Isylver and he basically said that players would all end up with the same number of stats (at level 200 you'd have 500stats to allocate for example) instead of player A hunting 50+ having 550 and player B hunting 0 bonus mobs having 500. If you would hunt exactly the same mobs at the same lvls, yes, you would end up with the same stats. But that's no different from now. What iSylver was referring to was the extra stats of the bonus hunters. They would, over time, as XP numbers grow, nullify this bonus. Let's say you gained an extra 10k XP because you have always hunted with a bonus. When a stat takes 100k XP per 0.1, your gain would be 0.01 STR which may as well be nothing. However, at lvl 100 this could be 10.0 stats. What this does mean is that most humans, if you'd add up all their stats (taking into account slowdowns and slower stats such as dex and wis) end up with the same-ish total number. However, the distribution of the stats would still vary as they do now. All numbers used above we're pulled out of my arse.
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[quote="GHOSTLORD"][quote="MITCHY"]Ah, my bad. I've heard differently from someone who asked Isylver and he basically said that players would all end up with the same number of stats (at level 200 you'd have 500stats to allocate for example) instead of player A hunting 50+ having 550 and player B hunting 0 bonus mobs having 500.
That's where the confusion lies. If that isn't the case then I take back the Hsoma part of it. But still feel sorry for the dsoma 50+ hunters![/quote]
If you would hunt exactly the same mobs at the same lvls, yes, you would end up with the same stats. But that's no different from now.
What iSylver was referring to was the extra stats of the bonus hunters. They would, over time, as XP numbers grow, nullify this bonus. Let's say you gained an extra 10k XP because you have always hunted with a bonus. When a stat takes 100k XP per 0.1, your gain would be 0.01 STR which may as well be nothing. However, at lvl 100 this could be 10.0 stats.
What this does mean is that most humans, if you'd add up all their stats (taking into account slowdowns and slower stats such as dex and wis) end up with the same-ish total number. However, the distribution of the stats would still vary as they do now.
All numbers used above we're pulled out of my arse.
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#69 2017/09/01 12:12:06 |
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STRELKA |
"GHOSTLORD" The second point I absolutely take - balancing without retroactively re-allocating wep stats and things is a good idea. But the main point I was trying to make is that I don't think it's a good idea to remove the punching grind. Currently there exists two ways of playing the game: you can level to 100 and have standard stats, or you can level to 100 with much more effort and work and have better stats. That time commitment and effort translates into a more powerful character. And we are talking about a LOT of time commitment and effort here. Taking that away means that everyone will have different stat allocations but there is no reward for working harder, only upgrade luck and RNG. That's gonna lead to people breaking their special items and feeling like their character is no longer special...and quitting. That's what soma is about. In the past it was grieff leveling, and it's good that it was removed. But the game is about the grind, and those who grind harder or smarter should have a reward for it.
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[quote="STRELKA"][quote="GHOSTLORD"]
Doesn't this apply the other way around too though? Because anyone can put his points anywhere you would end up with much more different builds. As you said everyone will hunt the same patterns so currently there's a lot of people with similar stats. Yes, you no longer have to waste your precious time punching, but surely that's a good thing?
The reason for the patch surpasses that though, it allows us to balance on the spot and work towards higher lvls with a lot more ease. Without having to wipe if we wanted to touch character stats.[/quote]
The second point I absolutely take - balancing without retroactively re-allocating wep stats and things is a good idea.
But the main point I was trying to make is that I don't think it's a good idea to remove the punching grind. Currently there exists two ways of playing the game: you can level to 100 and have standard stats, or you can level to 100 with much more effort and work and have better stats. That time commitment and effort translates into a more powerful character. And we are talking about a LOT of time commitment and effort here.
Taking that away means that everyone will have different stat allocations but there is no reward for working harder, only upgrade luck and RNG. That's gonna lead to people breaking their special items and feeling like their character is no longer special...and quitting.
That's what soma is about. In the past it was grieff leveling, and it's good that it was removed. But the game is about the grind, and those who grind harder or smarter should have a reward for it. [/quote]
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#70 2017/09/03 10:16:32 |
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YAREYAREDAZE |
the game will be ENTIRELY about items, which can't be a good thing, as there will be a huge load of people quitting when they break stuff trying to make stupid items to be "unique". As that's now the only way to stand out from the other knucklers/swordies/archers etc etc etc who have the same cookie cutter build as you do.
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[quote="YAREYAREDAZE"]the game will be ENTIRELY about items, which can't be a good thing, as there will be a huge load of people quitting when they break stuff trying to make stupid items to be "unique". As that's now the only way to stand out from the other knucklers/swordies/archers etc etc etc who have the same cookie cutter build as you do.[/quote]
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#71 2017/09/03 10:39:43 |
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ZELRIN |
"YAREYAREDAZE"the game will be ENTIRELY about items, which can't be a good thing, as there will be a huge load of people quitting when they break stuff trying to make stupid items to be "unique". As that's now the only way to stand out from the other knucklers/swordies/archers etc etc etc who have the same cookie cutter build as you do. World of Wacraft took out the awesome of having loads of skill points to use to make characters unique Now its more simplified like it would be here now and as above has said "Its all about items now" not how you would play your character
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[quote="ZELRIN"][quote="YAREYAREDAZE"]the game will be ENTIRELY about items, which can't be a good thing, as there will be a huge load of people quitting when they break stuff trying to make stupid items to be "unique". As that's now the only way to stand out from the other knucklers/swordies/archers etc etc etc who have the same cookie cutter build as you do.[/quote]
World of Wacraft took out the awesome of having loads of skill points to use to make characters unique
Now its more simplified like it would be here now and as above has said "Its all about items now" not how you would play your character[/quote]
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#72 2017/09/03 10:41:01 |
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YAREYAREDAZE |
There should be SOME reward for time commitment or other grinding method to better your character which doesnt involve items/upgrades.
The point system could work great if there was a method of getting a few extra points by hunting 'better' or some well thought out idea. In theory the system is really good as it lets you customize your character exactly how you want without guessing how much % you need to do, to go over certain stat thresholds. It just needs to integrate the classic soma ideology of rewarding you for putting more time in than someone else.
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[quote="YAREYAREDAZE"] There should be SOME reward for time commitment or other grinding method to better your character which [b]doesnt involve items/upgrades[/b].
The point system could work great if there was a method of getting a few extra points by hunting 'better' or some well thought out idea. In theory the system is really good as it lets you customize your character exactly how you want without guessing how much % you need to do, to go over certain stat thresholds. It just needs to integrate the classic soma ideology of rewarding you for putting more time in than someone else.
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#73 2017/09/03 10:44:10 |
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ZELRIN |
"YAREYAREDAZE"Classes in WoW have more than 1-2 offensive buttons and a better movement system, you cant possibly compare the 2 Im not comparing the 2 on game value at all am i Im comparing the way they simplified the game made items more valueable then how a character is mapped out A character with 50 possible different skill sets compared to the very little they have now means items come into effect alot more and mean alot more when it comes to fighting
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[quote="ZELRIN"][quote="YAREYAREDAZE"]Classes in WoW have more than 1-2 offensive buttons and a better movement system, you cant possibly compare the 2[/quote]
Im not comparing the 2 on game value at all am i
Im comparing the way they simplified the game made items more valueable then how a character is mapped out
A character with 50 possible different skill sets compared to the very little they have now means items come into effect alot more and mean alot more when it comes to fighting
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#74 2017/09/03 10:45:39 |
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YAREYAREDAZE |
mis-read your post
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#75 2017/09/03 10:54:02 |
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