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WOLF8 |
i think 'ghosting' the +'s .. ie.. never breaking items... would just flood the game and make 9/10 items virtually worthless whether +5-6-7-8 wotever.. there would be just too many around ingame
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#106 2019/10/09 07:58:17 |
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MAVERICK |
Ghosting seems the most popular. I feel is will ruin the economy tho. People will hoarde all there tagged items. There will be no items rare+ on the forum.
I dont think the anvil is broken. It's just harsh that it takes a while to get an item and an upgrade for it to go in seconds. My idea is, make +2 as you get item back. But increase tagged drops by x3. I feel it's the amount going into the anvil that's the problem. That will help the casual players more as they will have more items to try and upgrade.
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[quote="MAVERICK"]Ghosting seems the most popular. I feel is will ruin the economy tho. People will hoarde all there tagged items. There will be no items rare+ on the forum.
I dont think the anvil is broken. It's just harsh that it takes a while to get an item and an upgrade for it to go in seconds.
My idea is, make +2 as you get item back. But increase tagged drops by x3. I feel it's the amount going into the anvil that's the problem.
That will help the casual players more as they will have more items to try and upgrade. [/quote]
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#107 2019/10/09 11:52:01 |
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WEAPON_STORE |
you will never get a solution where everyone will be happy ... but its a good thing that we are discussing it and gms are giving it attention
for me i still prefer the ghost upgrade where when it fails it will go up with +1 but no stat increase ... who cares about aestetic lol just look at the stats you will nog get an uber +8 wep fast but at least people will end up with some damn nice + 8 weapons with maybe +5 or +6 stats but who cares when its epic / intense high skill weap with nice att
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[quote="WEAPON_STORE"]you will never get a solution where everyone will be happy ... but its a good thing that we are discussing it and gms are giving it attention
for me i still prefer the ghost upgrade where when it fails it will go up with +1 but no stat increase ... who cares about aestetic lol just look at the stats
you will nog get an uber +8 wep fast but at least people will end up with some damn nice + 8 weapons with maybe +5 or +6 stats but who cares when its epic / intense high skill weap with nice att[/quote]
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#108 2019/10/09 13:17:19 |
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ISELIX |
I know that my opinion counts for very little, but I have to say - I don't want/like the +2/+3 system being proposed.
I do, however... really want the +1 on fails system. To me, it really is a fantastic opportunity to let lower levels get gear, and let's face it - 90% of the people saying no are capped with uber items. If I end up with a '+5' with the stats of a '+2/+3' then, great. I can use that until I make a better one. The '+2' no fail system is not enough, it would have to be '+3' in my opinion, I think any less would not be enough, and people like me, who have waited years for a better anvil... will simply quit. Please don't put in any system other than '+1' no stats added on fails.
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[quote="ISELIX"]I know that my opinion counts for very little, but I have to say - I don't want/like the +2/+3 system being proposed.
I do, however... really want the +1 on fails system. To me, it really is a fantastic opportunity to let lower levels get gear, and let's face it - 90% of the people saying no are capped with uber items.
If I end up with a '+5' with the stats of a '+2/+3' then, great. I can use that until I make a better one.
The '+2' no fail system is not enough, it would have to be '+3' in my opinion, I think any less would not be enough, and people like me, who have waited years for a better anvil... will simply quit.
Please don't put in any system other than '+1' no stats added on fails. [/quote]
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#109 2019/10/09 13:45:21 |
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MKULTRA |
"ISELIX"I know that my opinion counts for very little, but I have to say - I don't want/like the +2/+3 system being proposed. +1 100% agree the +2 then fails start system is totally non-sensical by comparison with the +1 no stat on fail. +1 no stat on fail (so long as it is implemented with the removal of the combo system so everything doesn't just combo to int like in d soma before being viable) accomplishes everything you would want it to. It stops character regression on fail whilst still providing a penalty in the form of capping the item's potential and thus providing an impetus for people to carry on farming to make true +8 items at higher tags not to mention the tabs etc for the next attempt. Any 'shitty' items that are +8 but have +1 or +2 stats are only going to be more items flowing in the economy to noobs who don't have the crafting skill yet or go to help lower-level guildies etc. Any implementation whereby the risk of character regression is retained is just a pointless waste of potential and as Iselix says will not draw back the bigger crowds imo.
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[quote="MKULTRA"][quote="ISELIX"]I know that my opinion counts for very little, but I have to say - I don't want/like the +2/+3 system being proposed.
I do, however... really want the +1 on fails system. To me, it really is a fantastic opportunity to let lower levels get gear, and let's face it - 90% of the people saying no are capped with uber items.
If I end up with a '+5' with the stats of a '+2/+3' then, great. I can use that until I make a better one.
The '+2' no fail system is not enough, it would have to be '+3' in my opinion, I think any less would not be enough, and people like me, who have waited years for a better anvil... will simply quit.
Please don't put in any system other than '+1' no stats added on fails. [/quote]
+1
100% agree the +2 then fails start system is totally non-sensical by comparison with the +1 no stat on fail.
+1 no stat on fail (so long as it is implemented with the removal of the combo system so everything doesn't just combo to int like in d soma before being viable) accomplishes everything you would want it to.
It stops character regression on fail whilst still providing a penalty in the form of capping the item's potential and thus providing an impetus for people to carry on farming to make true +8 items at higher tags not to mention the tabs etc for the next attempt.
Any 'shitty' items that are +8 but have +1 or +2 stats are only going to be more items flowing in the economy to noobs who don't have the crafting skill yet or go to help lower-level guildies etc.
Any implementation whereby the risk of character regression is retained is just a pointless waste of potential and as Iselix says will not draw back the bigger crowds imo.
[/quote]
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#110 2019/10/09 17:43:45 |
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CHOJIN_TEST |
"MKULTRA""ISELIX"I know that my opinion counts for very little, but I have to say - I don't want/like the +2/+3 system being proposed. The GM’s have stated that they are willing to further change the anvil if they see that the current planned changes don’t ruin the balance. The anvil being changed at all is a huge step in the right direction and GM’s are right imo being cautious, their concerns circulate round someone smash SS’s on a weapon or 8 double tablets if fails added a fake +1.
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[quote="CHOJIN_TEST"][quote="MKULTRA"][quote="ISELIX"]I know that my opinion counts for very little, but I have to say - I don't want/like the +2/+3 system being proposed.
I do, however... really want the +1 on fails system. To me, it really is a fantastic opportunity to let lower levels get gear, and let's face it - 90% of the people saying no are capped with uber items.
If I end up with a '+5' with the stats of a '+2/+3' then, great. I can use that until I make a better one.
The '+2' no fail system is not enough, it would have to be '+3' in my opinion, I think any less would not be enough, and people like me, who have waited years for a better anvil... will simply quit.
Please don't put in any system other than '+1' no stats added on fails. [/quote]
+1
100% agree the +2 then fails start system is totally non-sensical by comparison with the +1 no stat on fail.
+1 no stat on fail (so long as it is implemented with the removal of the combo system so everything doesn't just combo to int like in d soma before being viable) accomplishes everything you would want it to.
It stops character regression on fail whilst still providing a penalty in the form of capping the item's potential and thus providing an impetus for people to carry on farming to make true +8 items at higher tags not to mention the tabs etc for the next attempt.
Any 'shitty' items that are +8 but have +1 or +2 stats are only going to be more items flowing in the economy to noobs who don't have the crafting skill yet or go to help lower-level guildies etc.
Any implementation whereby the risk of character regression is retained is just a pointless waste of potential and as Iselix says will not draw back the bigger crowds imo.
[/quote]
The GM’s have stated that they are willing to further change the anvil if they see that the current planned changes don’t ruin the balance.
The anvil being changed at all is a huge step in the right direction and GM’s are right imo being cautious, their concerns circulate round someone smash SS’s on a weapon or 8 double tablets if fails added a fake +1.[/quote]
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#111 2019/10/09 18:03:59 |
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ISELIX |
I have waited for years for the anvil to be 'fixed' and the system proposed is something I really can't support, at all.
If the problem is people smashing 8 SS on an item, then put a limit/cap on how many can be used. |
#112 2019/10/09 18:27:12 |
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MKULTRA |
"CHOJIN_TEST""MKULTRA""ISELIX"I know that my opinion counts for very little, but I have to say - I don't want/like the +2/+3 system being proposed. As I replied in the other thread but just to give max exposure to the discussion in case people aren't following both: Why not just lower the success % of SS and Double tabs if that is truly the concern? We know tabs can be given separate success rates as seen by the 150 skill success for 0 skill crafters on RDT/DT etc. Could/should even set SS specifically so that it can only be added after +5 which would solve the concern with that item specifically.
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[quote="MKULTRA"][quote="CHOJIN_TEST"][quote="MKULTRA"][quote="ISELIX"]I know that my opinion counts for very little, but I have to say - I don't want/like the +2/+3 system being proposed.
I do, however... really want the +1 on fails system. To me, it really is a fantastic opportunity to let lower levels get gear, and let's face it - 90% of the people saying no are capped with uber items.
If I end up with a '+5' with the stats of a '+2/+3' then, great. I can use that until I make a better one.
The '+2' no fail system is not enough, it would have to be '+3' in my opinion, I think any less would not be enough, and people like me, who have waited years for a better anvil... will simply quit.
Please don't put in any system other than '+1' no stats added on fails. [/quote]
+1
100% agree the +2 then fails start system is totally non-sensical by comparison with the +1 no stat on fail.
+1 no stat on fail (so long as it is implemented with the removal of the combo system so everything doesn't just combo to int like in d soma before being viable) accomplishes everything you would want it to.
It stops character regression on fail whilst still providing a penalty in the form of capping the item's potential and thus providing an impetus for people to carry on farming to make true +8 items at higher tags not to mention the tabs etc for the next attempt.
Any 'shitty' items that are +8 but have +1 or +2 stats are only going to be more items flowing in the economy to noobs who don't have the crafting skill yet or go to help lower-level guildies etc.
Any implementation whereby the risk of character regression is retained is just a pointless waste of potential and as Iselix says will not draw back the bigger crowds imo.
[/quote]
The GM’s have stated that they are willing to further change the anvil if they see that the current planned changes don’t ruin the balance.
The anvil being changed at all is a huge step in the right direction and GM’s are right imo being cautious, their concerns circulate round someone smash SS’s on a weapon or 8 double tablets if fails added a fake +1.[/quote]
As I replied in the other thread but just to give max exposure to the discussion in case people aren't following both:
Why not just lower the success % of SS and Double tabs if that is truly the concern?
We know tabs can be given separate success rates as seen by the 150 skill success for 0 skill crafters on RDT/DT etc.
Could/should even set SS specifically so that it can only be added after +5 which would solve the concern with that item specifically.[/quote]
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#113 2019/10/09 18:35:19 |
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MOOMISAUR |
I've said a couple of times over the years the problem with the anvil is that because your immediately only dealing with a low ceiling (+5 and +8) of upgrades, your very very quickly limited to how the difficulty scales, likewise its not easy to protect 'casuals' from starting out on upgrades without then making it just a bit too much easier doing +8 top end.
Likewise because of that low number of +5 and +8 for upgrades, its not easy to step the % success change with the crafters skill. Annoying 200 skill crafters. Increasing the craft upgrade limit to say +25 and make ToES/SS/DP/KE far less effective and likewise other upgrades would do the following (and no this isn't something you could implement without a big patch with a new weapon and armor tier for both worlds really to make people give up their weapons and not terribly upset those with fantastic gear). This is what you would get - +An ability to reward crafters for their skill by increasing % success incrementally depending on the + level of the item +An ability to create much more wilder sets if implementing RNG for attack/df even eva/accuracy +An ability to push back China and other max geared characters so they do not and will not have max gear for a long long time +An ability to make the first +5 or even +10 a lot safer and forgiving to casuals with the difficulty increasing maybe in 'bands' that are split out into different levels of safety - e.g +5 are RNG results but guaranteed +6-+14 have the risk of breaking the item with a 40% material return. Then more and more diminishing returns of materials reaching 0% by time you get near 20. +Not forced to ditch the combo system but you could just as well use that opportunity. +Not forced to give guaranteed safety nets for players +A second chance on making highly geared characters from not so easily mowing down fresh capped players. +Weapon progression could be 'saved every 5 levels maybe, so there isnt such thing as a complete break. GM's should make it practically impossible to get +25 for the reason that Esoma was neigh on impossible to get Level 100. To let them be able to gracefully add to the games end before people get there and therefore not make it difficult.
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[quote="MOOMISAUR"]I've said a couple of times over the years the problem with the anvil is that because your immediately only dealing with a low ceiling (+5 and +8) of upgrades, your very very quickly limited to how the difficulty scales, likewise its not easy to protect 'casuals' from starting out on upgrades without then making it just a bit too much easier doing +8 top end.
Likewise because of that low number of +5 and +8 for upgrades, its not easy to step the % success change with the crafters skill. Annoying 200 skill crafters.
Increasing the craft upgrade limit to say +25 and make ToES/SS/DP/KE far less effective and likewise other upgrades would do the following (and no this isn't something you could implement without a big patch with a new weapon and armor tier for both worlds really to make people give up their weapons and not terribly upset those with fantastic gear).
This is what you would get -
+An ability to reward crafters for their skill by increasing % success incrementally depending on the + level of the item
+An ability to create much more wilder sets if implementing RNG for attack/df even eva/accuracy
+An ability to push back China and other max geared characters so they do not and will not have max gear for a long long time
+An ability to make the first +5 or even +10 a lot safer and forgiving to casuals with the difficulty increasing maybe in 'bands' that are split out into different levels of safety - e.g +5 are RNG results but guaranteed +6-+14 have the risk of breaking the item with a 40% material return. Then more and more diminishing returns of materials reaching 0% by time you get near 20.
+Not forced to ditch the combo system but you could just as well use that opportunity.
+Not forced to give guaranteed safety nets for players
+A second chance on making highly geared characters from not so easily mowing down fresh capped players.
+Weapon progression could be 'saved every 5 levels maybe, so there isnt such thing as a complete break.
GM's should make it practically impossible to get +25 for the reason that Esoma was neigh on impossible to get Level 100. To let them be able to gracefully add to the games end before people get there and therefore not make it difficult.
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#114 2019/10/09 21:46:27 |
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SUPERGIRL |
"MICKYC"Hi Dan ;p. Yea no need for a complete history as you say. How many upgs left and the current rec is enough.
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[quote="SUPERGIRL"][quote="MICKYC"]Hi Dan ;p.
Surely you would just need look at the stats of an item and not its "+" status to see if its worth you buying it for the price wanted?
Good to see that you are still thinking about everything meanwhile :) and great that change seems to be coming too! :D
Micky[/quote]
Yea no need for a complete history as you say.
How many upgs left and the current rec is enough.[/quote]
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#115 2019/10/09 22:44:40 |
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LUPISCUS |
this 'ghosting' ..an item that never breaks ..just goes to +5-8 regardless of whether the upgrade items work or not... is very much like going to the bookies.. with an 8 horse accumulator .. and it doesnt matter if one horse doesn't win..or 2 or 3 horses don't win... .. only difference is how much u win at the end of the day.
This win win situation takes away any gamble or chance of failure, and is far too generous. It takes away any tension or 'fun' at the anvil, and would just result in absolute vast masses of semi-trash items in circulation which would be worthless and unsellable. The currently proposed system of allowing a fail proof method of going to +2 or maybe +3 . with no chance of fail is a far more generous way of doing things and would be more beneficial to both players and the economy of the game in general. imo
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[quote="LUPISCUS"]this 'ghosting' ..an item that never breaks ..just goes to +5-8 regardless of whether the upgrade items work or not... is very much like going to the bookies.. with an 8 horse accumulator .. and it doesnt matter if one horse doesn't win..or 2 or 3 horses don't win... .. only difference is how much u win at the end of the day.
This win win situation takes away any gamble or chance of failure, and is far too generous. It takes away any tension or 'fun' at the anvil, and would just result in absolute vast masses of semi-trash items in circulation which would be worthless and unsellable.
The currently proposed system of allowing a fail proof method of going to +2 or maybe +3 . with no chance of fail is a far more generous way of doing things and would be more beneficial to both players and the economy of the game in general.
imo[/quote]
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#116 2019/10/10 07:20:51 |
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RAZOR |
I concur with Iselix and MKultra. The proposed system will just make +3 the new 0 and everyone will try and "+5" their items. The problem hasn't been fixed just shifted along. +3 will be the new intense/legendary before its upgraded.
Allow SS to only be used at +5.
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[quote="RAZOR"]I concur with Iselix and MKultra. The proposed system will just make +3 the new 0 and everyone will try and "+5" their items. The problem hasn't been fixed just shifted along. +3 will be the new intense/legendary before its upgraded.
Allow SS to only be used at +5.[/quote]
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#117 2019/10/10 07:24:12 |
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MAVERICK |
Copied from other post I posted
What about a way if your item fails you get a bunch of random upgrades back. Based on if its + 1 or +8 when it fails. So if you fail a +1 maybe the anvil spits you back a few frogs or a ruby or something. If you fail a +8 maybe spits back an ss or a couple of them or gems or smalls or tabs. On like a roll bases. So +1 fail gets 1 item back ranging from herb to ss. A +8 item you get 8 items back? Which on the back of this inwas 5hinking people might abuse this and dig out there 300 drugs and blue pills and make loads of worthless +5s and 6 and 7s etc. And try and fail on a +8 to get some ss's or keen out of it. Yes they could and that then might lower the economy price of upgrades and tabs. But then weapons , accessories and armour will go up in price as people will have a lot of upgrades but no items. Which in turn will make the high crafters benefit from 200 skill. For example if raven starts crafting epic stingers and selling them. With high attack and dura. They will sell for a hell of a lot more as people will have a loads of upgrades just waiting for a good weapon to put them on. And in roundabout effect, if ravens epic stinger that you bought for a lot fails going +4 you get 4 random upgrades back?
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[quote="MAVERICK"]Copied from other post I posted
What about a way if your item fails you get a bunch of random upgrades back. Based on if its + 1 or +8 when it fails. So if you fail a +1 maybe the anvil spits you back a few frogs or a ruby or something. If you fail a +8 maybe spits back an ss or a couple of them or gems or smalls or tabs. On like a roll bases.
So +1 fail gets 1 item back ranging from herb to ss. A +8 item you get 8 items back?
Which on the back of this inwas 5hinking people might abuse this and dig out there 300 drugs and blue pills and make loads of worthless +5s and 6 and 7s etc. And try and fail on a +8 to get some ss's or keen out of it.
Yes they could and that then might lower the economy price of upgrades and tabs.
But then weapons , accessories and armour will go up in price as people will have a lot of upgrades but no items. Which in turn will make the high crafters benefit from 200 skill. For example if raven starts crafting epic stingers and selling them. With high attack and dura. They will sell for a hell of a lot more as people will have a loads of upgrades just waiting for a good weapon to put them on.
And in roundabout effect, if ravens epic stinger that you bought for a lot fails going +4 you get 4 random upgrades back?[/quote]
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#118 2019/10/10 08:51:23 |
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LUPISCUS |
still think the failproof +2 or 3 gives an immediate and beneficial solution to guys without any decent equips atm to knock out some useable stuff to get them back playing. This is a generous tweak for every one.. not to be sneezed at.
Maybe fails materialising into items to use again could be implemented for fails above +2 or 3 .
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[quote="LUPISCUS"]still think the failproof +2 or 3 gives an immediate and beneficial solution to guys without any decent equips atm to knock out some useable stuff to get them back playing. This is a generous tweak for every one.. not to be sneezed at.
Maybe fails materialising into items to use again could be implemented for fails above +2 or 3
.
[/quote]
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#119 2019/10/10 09:40:31 |
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RAZOR |
"LUPISCUS"still think the failproof +2 or 3 gives an immediate and beneficial solution to guys without any decent equips atm to knock out some useable stuff to get them back playing. This is a generous tweak for every one.. not to be sneezed at. Oh its very generous, especially for someone like me with +1's and a couple of +2's. I'm just trying to think of those people who are at the next level now trying to get that +6 item, but you are right there will be a load of semi trash items with the ghost method, but they could still be useful for others, one man's trash and all that.
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[quote="RAZOR"][quote="LUPISCUS"]still think the failproof +2 or 3 gives an immediate and beneficial solution to guys without any decent equips atm to knock out some useable stuff to get them back playing. This is a generous tweak for every one.. not to be sneezed at.
Maybe fails materialising into items to use again could be implemented for fails above +2 or 3
[/quote]
Oh its very generous, especially for someone like me with +1's and a couple of +2's. I'm just trying to think of those people who are at the next level now trying to get that +6 item, but you are right there will be a load of semi trash items with the ghost method, but they could still be useful for others, one man's trash and all that.[/quote]
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#120 2019/10/10 09:46:13 |
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